Reloading 30-30 powder question.

[XL650 Owner]

I have reloaded 30-06 for years but that was 12 years ago and haven't done anything with it since then. My son was born and I put it all away until he got older. Now that he is 12 and can shoulder the guns he has taken an interest in target shooting. which brings me to my question. I am planning on having him start out with my 30-30 using 110 grain bullets but not sure what to use for powder or which powder to use. He has prepped 480 30-30 cases, cleaned and trimmed and is ready to start loading them but want to get some ideas as to which powder to use and how much of it so as to make a lighter load for him. He is pretty strong and I am sure he can handle a full charge just want the first few (50 or so) to be lighter so he can get used to the thing. any thoughts or ideas would be great. I am having him do all the work and he is loving it. Great father son time and gives him a good understanding as to what is happening to make the boom. I've has him look at pictures of guns with double charges or blocked barrels all so he can get a handle on just how dangerous this can be if not respected. Thanks in advance for your replies.

[jwrowland77]

If you want to make a light load for him, use H4895. It worked great for my daughter and her .223, shes 7yo. I called Hodgdon and they told me exactly what to do for the powder load. I started at the bottom end and worked my way up until I found a load that was between not hurting at all and where it hurt. Find a nice middle where he knows he's shot a gun but where it doesn't hurt.

Hodgdon also has the formula on their site. Super super easy, and don't believe all the rumors you hear about a reduced load being dangerous. If it was dangerous, I believe Hodgdon wouldn't be giving out the info they do, their lawyers wouldn't let them! My daughter has shot 150+ reduced recoil loads and haven't had an issue out of a single one!

H4895 is a great powder.

[XL650 Owner]

Thank you for the advice. I hadn't thought of calling anyone. That's why places like this are so great. None of my friends reload so I can't ask them what they do. Well I could but they would say something like, picking out a load.... ya.... well, see it's like this..... I walk into the local Walmart and head to their sporting goods and then buy whats on sale. Which I suppose works for them but doesn't do a whole lot for me. anyway, thanks and I'll give Hodgdon a call.

[jwrowland77]

No problem. I believe if you go to their website it's on there as well.

[davery25]

Reduced loads CAN be dangerous. According to ADI/Hodgdon H4895 / AR2206H is the slowest burning powder that ignites uniformly. With it you can use the 60% rule which is, take the maximum listed charge for a cartridge and bullet weight and use 60% of this value to achieve a reduced load. Obviously you can increase from there too.

I've attached the e-mail from ADI/Thales Australia

[Sport45]

Trail Boss is great powder for reduced loads.

Trail Boss Reduced Loads for Rifle and Pistol

The H4895 reduced loads worked, but I didn't like the amount of unburnt powder left in the barrel when I tried it with my 7.7x58 Arisaka years ago.

Hodgdon H4895 Reduced Rifle Loads

[Salmoneye]

I shoot .38spcl level loads out of my Marlin 336RC in .35Rem...

I use low doses of Red Dot with 'pistol' bullets, and data from this page:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

It has data for light loads in .30-30 with a 170gr bullet...

Be aware of what you are doing; double check by weighing and visually verifying your charges of 'pistol' powders for double charges...

[hodaka]

+1 for Trailboss. Unique also works well as a rifle powder.

[SL1]

I think you are going to find that H-4895 is too slow, especially for reduced loads with light bullets.

Powders like SR-4759 and Accurate 5744 would probably allow you to make the kinds of reduced loads that you want, especially with light bullets. However, I was not able to find much data for those powders with 110 grain bullets in the .30-30. The most recent Hornady manual (#8) does contain one load for the 110 grain bullets with A-5744. It is 23.2 grains for 1850 fps out of a 10" long pistol barrel. Unfortunately, that seems to be a max load, and the lesser loads are not provided on the table. So, it is not flexible, and working-up from there is not appropriate.

The load data for .30-30 pistols will probably give you some better ideas of what powders work well for lighter bullets. And, manuals like the Hornady will give a table of velocities with the charges of several different powders that can achieve those velocities. That allows you to see what powders provide flexibility in working with a wide range of reduced loads. In the Hornady #8 manual, NO powder goes from the minimum to the maximum velocity in the table for the pistol. Vihtavuori N-130 is the most versatile powder listed, but is not as available as other powders. And, it is not listed with the heavier bullets that you will probably want to use later.

I have not made reduce loads for the .30-30, myself, so I can't give you the benefit of experience. Hopefully, somebody else will add some real expericence with reducel loads in the actual cartridge.

One other thought is accuracy. Without actually developing a load for accuracy, the shooting experience for your son could become frustrating. Many reduced loads don't shoot well, although some shoot great in some guns. For that reason, I would urge you to find a propellant that is flexible enough to do some load development with your chosen light bullet. If that works out well, producing a load that is both comfortable and accurate in YOUR gun, it would be a great introduction to handloading as well as to shooting.

SL1

[XL650 Owner]

I am not stuck on the 110 bullet, I was jut thinking that being a lighter bullet would lend itself to lower recoil. LS1 - That is what I was thinking with all of this. He wants to know how everything works almost to the point of extreme. When he was 7 I needed to do some work on my car. Replace the ball joints, brakes, shocks, sway-bar links, and tie-rod ends. I had the car on stands and Jack picked up a part and wanted to know where it went. I smiled and said see if you can find it. What would have taken a day took the whole weekend but he changed all the parts himself and had a huge sense of pride from it. I broke loose the bolts he couldn't get and retightened them after him but he took the off, put them on, asked a lot of questions, and we had a great time. He is taking to this with the same level of curiosity. He is also smart and hard working. Made Honor Roll all last year, and Junior Honor Society, as well as Presidents Award for Academic Excellence in fifth grade. Plus all-stars in baseball the last 4 years. He has mowed 4 lawns each week since he was 9 including edging and trimming earning 250 a month and he has been clearing 5 driveways in the winter. He has been doing the driveways since he was 10. He is buying all the supplies because he wants to and he has over $3000 saved in the bank from what he has earned working. (I don't mean to sound as if I'm bragging but I am just so darn proud of him) He trimmed 480 cases not stopping till he finished. I was thinking the 110 would be less and I did find a shop here that sells 100 for 13.95. But if it seems that it would be better to use a heavier bullet then I'm open to that. He is a pretty tough kid and I think He could handle a full load. I was just thinking it would be better to start lighter and work up. Not looking for a super light recoil. Knowing him he is going to want to know he fired a gun just want to be 'this side of owe'.

[SL1]

Sounds like a kid worth your efforts. I hope I'm still around in 24 years so that I can vote for him when he becomes eligible to run for President.

With respect to the light bullets, there are plenty of .30-30 loads in the pistol sections of manuals that use 110, 125, and 130 grain bullets. Most use faster powders, which will get up to the usual .30-30 pressures and burn pretty cleanly, but because the charges don't fill the cases, they produce lower velocities in rifles than the usual rifle powders.

What powders and manuals do you already have?

SL1

[XL650 Owner]

SL1 : Thanks.... even though he is 12 he still gets up earlier than he has to so he can wave goodbye to me as I leave for work every morning.

I have no powder for rifles, so am open to anything seeing as I have to buy it anyway. (a little for shotgun 2 pounds, but not sure if I want to use it as its like 16 years old), in the past I used Winchester 760 for my 30-06, I have a couple hundred bullets but they are pointed for my 06. need to get some flat or round nose for the 30-30 (I would rather not use the 30-30 as a single shot with pointed bullets). As for manuals I have a Nosler manual #3 printed 1989 and a Lyman manual 46th edition. Also have the Lyman shotshell manual.

[SL1]

Since you need to buy the light bullets, I suggest Sierra 125 grain FLAT NOSE (they also make a pointed bullet) "Pro Hunter" bullets that are made specifically for the .30-30 and tubular magazines. It is more likely to be accurate than the various 110 grain bullets.

I have an (old) Sierra manual from which I can scan the rifle and pistol .30-30 data and e-mail it to you if you have broad-band Internet. Send me a PM with your e-mail addess if you want me to do that. But, I need to get ready for a storm soon, so I may not get to it until tomorrow (or later if this storm takes out my power, again.)

SL1

[farmerboy]

At 12 he should be able to handle any bullet and full loads. My daughter at 12 shot any rifle I owned.

[XL650 Owner]

Farmerboy - I have no doubt that he can shoot them. It's just that he has never fired anything other than 5 shots out of a .22 at camp this summer. Am I concerned about his ability?, not at all. It is just that I want to make sure its fun for him and he doesn't get his shoulder slammed by not holding it in tight or some other beginner mistake. Its all new to him. I told him I would start him out on lighter loads. That's all I am trying to do. What's the point if its not fun.

[jimbob86]

I loaded quite a few practice loads for my nephew and my daughter in .30/30 .... used 36 grains of H335 at first .... then I forget what charge of IMR4064 for the same velocity wen I ran out of the former ...... used Hornady's 100 gr Semi-jacketed bullets .... hundreds of 'em. Should've bought them in bulk, knowing how Eldest gets trigger happy......

[farmerboy]

I guess I'm still wondering why he's 12 and he hasn't been shooting already for 6-7 years. Maybe new stepson, maybe y'all are both new to shooting, who knows or who cares. Yes I agree though that it should be fun. Get some of his friends over when y'all are shooting. You know how he'll prob get more excited in front of his friends and it's a way to get other youth into the sport. But really a 30-30 doesn't kick too much. But hope y'all have a blast and this is only the beginning! I love to hear of youngsters getting into the sport of shooting.

[XL650 Owner]

He's ours. Our daughter was adopted when she was 4. He hasn't been shooting for a number of reasons. We were foster parents to 14 other kids over the last 7 years. This is the first year we haven't and probably wont any more as our kids are older and would rather we didn't now. We only have a 3 bedroom house and we have a boy and a girl so when we fostered we only took in kids of about the same age or younger than ours and let our kids decide if they wanted to share their room again. We started when they were about 5. I had to have extra safety training having the guns in the house because I could reload even though I wasn't, being active would have only made it worse. I suppose mostly though it just wasn't that big a deal. He had so many other interests going on it just wasn't that big a deal. Baseball in the spring from April to July, then tennis from august to October. Add to that he couldn't hold them up. Now he is old enough to easily shoulder them while standing, we aren't fostering any more and it just seems like it's time. So I'm getting back into it.

[jimbob86]

The young man needs a .22. I think every responsible kid needs one, but that's just me ......



The 100 gr Hornady SJ load I used will burst milk jugs full of water with similar authority to that of a 150 grain SP ..... great reactive target on the cheap!

[dunerjeff]

Get him into casting his own,then he'll really enjoy every aspect of the sport.Working around molten lead would be a questionable area that only the parent could deside. It would allow him to shoot(and get good practice) a LOT more for the money.
I also agree that it should be in the constitution the every kid should have a .22lr. Or nowadays a .17hmr,.17M2

[XL650 Owner]

jimbob :

I am with you on that and he plans on getting one next month when he gets paid. (my other half isn't so keen on the idea) and then he says he want to save up for a .308 and maybe get one of those by spring. Though he is also trying to save up for a boat and motor to go fishing and save for a car and still get money in the bank. He is making around $200/mo cutting grass and another $600 in the winter clearing driveways. For a 12/yo he is doing pretty good. But I have always told him he can buy pretty much anything he wants but what ever he spends he has to put the same amount into his savings. Its kinda of neat listening to him as he plans out how he is going to save for something and weighing his options as to what to actually get.

[jimbob86]

He is making around $200/mo cutting grass and another $600 in the winter clearing driveways. For a 12/yo he is doing pretty good. But I have always told him he can buy pretty much anything he wants but what ever he spends he has to put the same amount into his savings. Its kinda of neat listening to him as he plans out how he is going to save for something and weighing his options as to what to actually get.

Sounds like he is on the right road to me! Just make sure he does not try any "shortcuts"- things he worked for he will appreciate.

Keep up the good work!

[XL650 Owner]

Well, I stopped on the way home tonight and picked up 100 110gn round nose bullets. I was going to get 125gr but the didn't have any and I couldn't pass up the price of 13.95/100. Thought that was pretty good. He is ordering some 150gr flat nose for me and should be in next week. The 110's will be good for plinking till then. Hope to get to the range with him this weekend but will have to wait and see. He has 2 baseball games to play Saturday but the first one doesn't start until 5:30 so that shouldn't be a problem.

[ole shooter]

I didn't read every response , but have you considered hard cast. I just returned from the range where I was trying a test load of 8 grains of Unique under a 115 gr. RN .309 from my 30-30 . They shot nicely, no kick . I'll bump a few up to 10 grains for the next test. At $30 for 250 count from SNS they will make a nice plinking load for my 30-30. If you want heaver , there are lots of sources, and I'm not having problems with leading with the light loads. Can't part without saying congratulations on a job well done bring up that boy.

[L_Killkenny]

I'm gonna post some loads here that I found few various sources. All available via Google, NOT MY LOADS! Some I've used other's I've not, I take ZERO, NONE, NADA responsibility! None are loads that I personally developed just read about and copied. Also, these are in note form, really not much more than electronic scribbles. Decipher and use at your own risk.

- 18-20grs of SR4759
- 10grs of Unique and 100-110gr jacketed bullets
- 125-130gr jacketed bullets with 8-8.5 grs of Unique for around 1500fps
- 13grs of BlueDot behind a 150gr bullet (not sure if it's jacketed or not)
- 15grs of SR4759 behind a 100gr jacketed, 1834fps from a 24" barrel.
- 17grs of SR4759 behind a 150gr jacketed, 1794fps from a 24" barrel.
- 13 grs of Blue Dot will work in about any .30cal
- 10grs of Unique will work in any .30cal with 100gr speer plinker at around 1475
- 12grs of Unique in 30/30 with 100gr speer at around 1625fps
- 100gr bullet w/ 15grs sr4759 = 1834fps in 24" barrel (Chuck Hawks)
- 100gr bullet w/ 18grs sr4759 = 2034fps in 24" barrel (Chuck Hawks)
- 13.5 grs of SR4759 with 110gr pill

Some of the info is from Chuck Hawks, there is also more available at www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3030varmint.htm and www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm.

I did testing of loads using BlueDot, SR4759 and reduced H4895 and 100-125gr jacketed bullets a few years ago. I (i.e. me, myself, not necessarily you) never had any issues.

Now I will add that working on reduced loads is prehaps the most fun I've ever had reloading.