FN Five-seven

[chrisintexas]

what is your opinion about FN Five-seven?
Thanks

[vandyatc]

I love mine and wouldn't give it up for anything. It is my hiking gun and occasionally my carry gun. It's a very nice little piece. Is not a .45...


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[Morgo]

Interesting pistol with a VERY flat shooting round

[kcub]

I'd like to have the carbine with 50 round mags.
Ultimate not-zombie head gun.

[PSP]

A great gun, very high quality, easy to shoot well, easy to operate, shoots clean, and has low, low recoil. Ammo is easy to find and is an excellent home defense round. The only drawback to the gun is that it is expensive, however there is a good used market and guns are available for less than NIB prices. I paid $700 for mine.

[vandyatc]

Yeah, except the last couple weeks. Now they are closer to $2k and rounds are tough to come by. Some idiots on gunbroker are buying at closer to $3k.

It's also hard to argue about 20 rounds in that light of a weapon.

[Locoweed]

Around here (in Alabama) the cost of the ammo has risen from about $20/box to $30/box and is in very short supply with many stores limiting purchases to two boxes only. On-line supplies seem to have risen greatly in price as well.

[carguychris]

The only drawback to the gun is that it is expensive...

I feel there are a handful of other drawbacks as well, although IMHO they're not as significant as the price.

• It's fairly large.
• Holster availability and aftermarket support in general are somewhat limited.
• The peculiar location of the safety can cause some fumbling if you're accustomed to other handguns. Yes, this is fundamentally a training issue, but its more-or-less unique location means that there is little crossover to other types of handgun; i.e. if you train for the Five-seveN, you ONLY train for the Five-seveN, because you can't get another gun in, say, .45ACP with the safety in the same place.

[tahunua001]

in my opinion. it's a gun that costs FN Herstal less than $40 to make and yet they sell for $1,000+, there is something very wrong with that kind of profit margin. on top of a very expensive gun, spare magazines, reloading equipment/components and ammo are all relatively expensive unless something has changed in the last year which I doubt it has very much. last I checked it was almost as cheap to shoot 30-06 as it was to shoot 5.7, add that it's a semi auto pistol you tend to shoot more of it, and faster than out of a bolt action rifle and the 5.7 just becomes a very non cost effective platform to get into.

I could care less about the stopping power of the 5.7 or it's use in the ft hood shooting, I've seen more than enough village idiots kill themselves by trying to clean loaded 22lrs and isreali special forces use 22mags so I have little doubt as to the stopping power of a well placed 5.7, not that you need a well placed shot with a 5.7 as you have a 20 round magazine standard and the report is comparable to a flash-bang grenade in an enclosed space.

as for armor piercing capabilities this is moot, only law enforcement has access to the armor piercing stuff and it's illegal to possess or purchase it as per ATF, since you are stuck with factory Vmax ammo straight from FNH for the most part anyway you have little more ability to defend yourself from the inevitable 300 pound, body building, kevlar wearing, crackhead than you would carrying a 40 S&W or 10mm.

if you have the money to buy such a weapon and feed it on a regular basis then go ahead and buy one but it would be much more cost effective to go with a mainstream 9mm such as the Springfield XDM where the gun costs half as much, you still have a 19+1 capacity (just 1 round short of the 5.7), and ammo costs you a quarter a round instead of 75 cents a round.

[ClydeFrog]

As posted here, there are a few +s about the new FNH 5.7x28mm pistols. High cap mags(20 rounds), low recoil, high vel, no muzzle flash or blast, AP factors.
The -s include high price, hard to find gear/holsters, lack of ammunition choices or brands, large size. I'd add that this model was used by the berserk US Army officer in the Fort Hood Texas spree shooting.
If you used this 5.7mm model in a critical incident, that factor may come up.
Overall, I'd say the FNH 5.7x28mm has a lot going for it. I like the OD model. But in general, unless you have the $$$ & resources, I wouldn't get it.

Clyde

[PSP]

in my opinion. it's a gun that costs FN Herstal less than $40 to make and yet they sell for $1,000+, there is something very wrong with that kind of profit margin.

That's a great line... except for the fact that you have no idea what it costs to produce that pistol. Made up facts are not worth the electrons they're composed of.

[tahunua001]

unless you can provide me with facts that says my assertion is wrong my point is just as valid as anyone elses

[Rainbow Demon]

I got a chance to examine one of the first FN 5.7 pistols to enter the U S.
A friend who's uncle was a Federal Agent of some sort (not FBI) was given one of these to test and evaluate. He let his Nephew do some of the testing, because he already had a mountain of old bullet proof vests of various sorts and kevlar panels he had been using to test various rifle and pistol loads.

I did not get the opportunity to fire the piece, my friend had promised not to let anyone else try it out.

Its an interesting piece, but the cartridge interested me more than the pistol itself.

The Soviets had a similar 5mm pistol cartridge, intended for a very small pocket auto. it was said to penetrate any concealable body armor available at the time.

As small as that round was I'm suprised they didn't try rebarreling the 7.65 Czech Skorpion select fire PDW for the 5mm. That would be a serious little spitfire.

[45_auto]

Originally Posted by tahunua001

in my opinion. it's a gun that costs FN Herstal less than $40 to make

Originally Posted by tahunua001

unless you can provide me with facts that says my assertion is wrong my point is just as valid as anyone elses

You obviously have no idea what it costs to build a mass produced consumer product.

Fact: The overhead labor cost will easily be several hundred dollars per pistol. FN has at a minimum a receiving department, a shipping department, an inventory control department, a tooling department, a purchasing department, a legal department, an engineering department, a maintenance department, an environmental department, a safety department, and upper management. None of those have anything to do with the touch labor of physically building a gun. According to their website, FN's current employment is about 2400 people. There's probably less than a couple of hundred people on the floor who do actual touch labor, machining, or molding operations on the firearms. That means that the one guy actually building a gun has more than 9 other people that are supporting him whose salaries, pensions, insurance, etc, must be factored into the cost of the gun.

Fact: The amoritization of the molds and machinery that make the plastic frame will exceed $40 per pistol. Have you priced multi-component molds and injection molding machines lately?

Fact: The amoritization of the tooling and machinery that make the metal parts of the pistol will exceed $40 per pistol. Have you priced tooling and high-speed machining centers lately? What's the CHEAPEST aftermarket barrel you can find anywhere for anything? That part alone will easily exceed your $40.

Fact: The touch labor time that loads the mold machine, runs the mold machine, racks the parts, de-flashes the parts, does the metal machining, applies the finish to the parts, does the inspection, and assembles the gun will exceed $40 per gun.

Fact: The fixed cost such as electricity, water, waste disposal, factory mortgage payment, etc will exceed $40 per pistol.

Fact: If the only thing you consider is the cost of the raw materials (plastic and steel) that go into the gun, then $40 is probably about right. McMaster Carr probably has the raw plastic pellets and steel necessary to build your own gun. Once you try it, you'll figure out why machine shops charge $100 per hour and FN charges $1000 for a pistol.

[tahunua001]

and yet a company like ruger has all of those same departments as well, the same employees that have to guide their guns every step of the way and yet a 100% steel design like the SR1911 makes it to wholesalers for less than $500. retailers can, and have sold them for $560 meaning that a gun that is well over 75percent plastic like the FN five seven that should cost even less to manufacture as plastic is cheaper than steel and as it takes much less effort to dump plastic in a mold and punch holes in it than it is to forge a pistol from steel.

your argument is completely void,
even if you are counting employee wages, shipping and handling, there is no reason why this gun should retail for more than $500.

[Rainbow Demon]

I can remember when a Civilian version of the Colt AR-15 sold for around 300 bucks (don't remember the exact price), while the U S Army was paying $670 each for them.
The difference in price was explained as the added magazines, slings, and other accessories, plus a garantee of ten years worth of spare parts much like the automobile industry was once compelled to garantee in order to sell a new model car.

From the look of the 5.7 I examined it shouldn't cost much if any more to manufacture than a S&W or Glock.

[45_auto]

Do you know what a VAT (value added tax) is?

FN is in Belgium (a little farther than Arizona). The Belgium VAT rate is 21%. On top of that, Belgian citizens suffer from one of the highest taxation rates in the EU.

How do Ruger's VAT rate, tax rate, and shipping rates compare to FN's?

I can tell you for a fact that Ruger's VAT rate is zero, their tax rate is most likely about half of FN's, Ruger's import duties are zero, and although I haven't shipped anything to the US from Belgium lately, it's hard to imagine it being cheaper than shipping something from Arizona.

[tahunua001]

ok then how if these guns cost so much to ship, build and what have you, why are other companies like sig sauer, Steyr, and walther able to make guns of equal or better quality and market them for several hundred dollars less than the FN five seven? they have to pay the same taxes as FN Herstal

[PSP]

last I knew 5.7 pistols were manufactured in the united states.

They are made in Belgium according to FNH. Mine is marked as such.

"All FN handguns, excluding the Five-seveN®, are manufactured at the state-of-the-art manufacturing facility located in Columbia, SC, as well as the M240 line of medium machine guns, M249 line of light machine guns, the MK 46, MK 48, M16 and FN 303."
http://www.fnhusa.com/l/about/


Why someone would feel compelled to profer so much mis-information is a mystery.

[tahunua001]

if you'll notice, I had already retracted my comment toward the location of manufacture, apparently every FN pistol except the 57 is made in the US, a little research and I was corrected, however I still stand buy the fact that the 57 is mostly plastic and yet it is still more expensive than almost any other imported handgun regardless of construction methods.

[PSP]

"You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin"

Amen to that. Merry Christmas.