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Old November 28, 2012, 02:14 PM   #1
Join Date: October 22, 2012
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Innocents Betrayed - The History of Gun Control

This is a terrifying account of what happens when governments are given (or take) ultimate control. During the 20th century more than 170,000,000 (yes, you read that right) citizens around the world were killed off by their own governments. Imposing gun control was ALWAYS one of the first steps. Think it can't happen here or in this modern age? It IS happening in parts of the world, and there are people in our own government that are intent on taking away our right to bear arms.

I know I'm speaking to the choir here. How can we enlighten our fellow citizens without ourselves looking like trigger-happy, right-wing, extremest survivalists whakos?

Can someone tell me how to embed the actual video?
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Old November 28, 2012, 03:31 PM   #2
Al Norris
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Quite some time ago, the Staff of TFL decided not to allow direct embedding of YouTube videos. The most you can do is supply the link, as you have done.
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Old November 28, 2012, 04:09 PM   #3
Tom Servo
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Imposing gun control was ALWAYS one of the first steps.
In academic circles, the historical phenomenon is referred to as democide. The actual 20th century totals I've seen seem to average around 130-150 million.

One of the first examples the video gives is the Armenian genocide. I'm unaware of any gun confiscations on the part of the Turks. In fact, the Armenians put up a spirited, armed defense at Van. As with other such episodes, institutionalized coercion and overwhelming force of numbers played a much larger role than the confiscation of firearms.

To hear some folks tell it, if German Jews had guns, the Holocaust would have never happened. This is specious at best. There were roughly 500,000 Jews in Germany (out of a population of 80 million) when Hitler came into power. Even if they had access to firearms, how many of those would be willing and trained to use them effectively?

A few thousand, perhaps. Not enough to band together for an organized, effective resistance. Certainly not enough to give the Schutzstaffel pause. They might have scored a few casualties, but one only has to look at Hitler's treatment of Poland (who did resist with force of arms) to see what little effect it would have had.

While it seems to be a corollary in many cases, implying that gun control is the cause of oppression is a shaky argument at best.
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
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Old November 28, 2012, 05:25 PM   #4
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I wouldn't call gun control the 'cause,' but certainly part of the strategy.
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Old November 28, 2012, 05:43 PM   #5
Dr Big Bird PhD
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I feel like the lack of physical resistance during the holocaust was one of the biggest reasons it failed to be widely known about in America. The fact that hundreds of thousands of people disappeared without signs of resistance was what was so scary. Obviously they had no chance to hold out for themselves, but the cost-benefit of the German's performing the holocaust would have been different if there hadn't been gun control to that level.
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
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Old November 29, 2012, 04:17 AM   #6
Bartholomew Roberts
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Fun historical fact, TFL played a major role in funding Innocents Betrayed. I believe Rich Lucibella led the way on that and many TFL members joined him in contributing.
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Old November 30, 2012, 12:58 AM   #7
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Tom, the gun control argument in Germany started with the Weimer republic, where they "registered" all weapons, then began to confiscate some because of the "anarchist's" and the "communists". The NAZI party only continued what they were given (to their advantage)

Would Hitler have gotten as far as he had if there were freely available unregistered firearms? We will never know for sure, but it surely would have been more difficult, Don't get stuck on the "Jewish" problem, there was a lot of resistance to the cult of "der Führer" well beyond the Jewish problem in Germany in the 30's and 40's.
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Old December 1, 2012, 02:04 AM   #8
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If the 565,000 German Jews in 1933 had started resisting the Nazis with deadly force, the Nazis may have held power only a couple of years. For certain, if the 6,000,000 Jews of Europe had consistently and continually resisted with deadly force, even if only kitchen knives, an additional half-million dead and wounded Axis soldiers and collaborators would have had a very great impact on the German ability to continue the war as long as they did.

With the war kiling 10,000 people a day, every day, shortening the war would have saved a lot of lives.
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