Beware of Little John's Auction for old guns

cjwils · November 23, 2012, 01:55 PM

I want to warn you about my recent experience with Little John's Auction Service and Little John's Antique Arms, Inc, based in Orange Calif. They deal mostly with antique and curio and relic firearms. In the past, I used their internet service to bid on and win a couple of antique pistols that were accurately described and were in good condition. But I am disgusted with my experience with their most recent auction. Using the internet, I was the high bidder on these two antique pistols:

Remington Elliot 5-shot derringer: Little Johns described the action as "good." They say they use the NRA definitions of gun quality. NRA says that "good" means that the action is in good working order. This gun was delivered to me with the firing pin missing. Does that seem like a "good" action? Is a gun with a missing firing pin in good working order? Little John's photos and their complete description did not indicate in any way that the gun was missing a critical part.

Rupertus pepperbox: Little Johns described the action as "working." The rest of the description and the photos did not indicate any missing or broken parts, but the gun was delivered to me with an important part of the action broken off and lying loose in the package. I am not sure whether the broken part can be repaired, and the gun does not work correctly without it.

The package was delivered by Fedex in exceptionally good condition with no sign of any damage during shipping, so there is no way that the shipper can be blamed for broken or missing parts.

I emailed Little John's multiple times to complain and explain the problems, but they did not bother to reply. Their Terms and Conditions of Sale include a "sold as is" clause, but another part of the Terms and Conditions of Sale says that Little John's "warrants the accuracy of the catalog descriptions." It is clear to me that their descriptions were faulty and incomplete.

If you have an interest in bidding on any guns in future Little John's auctions, beware that a similar situation could happen to you.

cjwils · November 23, 2012, 05:20 PM

After I sent 3 emails, they got back to me and promised a refund. The problem seems to be resolved.

johnwilliamson062 · November 24, 2012, 11:37 PM

Every once in a while I am having trouble with a company and it seems when I post a complaint on here and then get a quick and exemplary response.
Wouldn't be that difficult to set up a search to check the web for discussion about your business, so I am always left wondering.

chiefr · November 25, 2012, 10:26 AM

One thing to consider is some of the auction sites do not have a clue about firearms or anything they are selling, thus communication is paramount.
I have never liked "Sold as is"
However, in purchasing something that is to be sold as is, credit card (CC) would be my prefered method. With a CC you have some protection & can dispute the charge.

I always like dealers that offer returns within 3 or so days if not satisfied. However, you do pay to ship it back. I have always liked Auction Arms because sellers must offer a return period or they are not welcome.

Appreciate the warning.

jag2 · November 25, 2012, 04:34 PM

I wish you hadn't made this post, now I have another place to shop (spend money I shouldn't). I didn't expect what I found when I went to their site, looks like a first class place, not someone running a gunshop out of their garage. Could there be a misunderstanding, sure. The catalog was huge and very diversified so I wouldn't expect them to be an expert on every item. As long as the matter was resolved fairly thats all I would ask for.

James K · November 25, 2012, 10:21 PM

The real fakers usually respond right away and send a refund on receipt of the item back. It costs them little, and prevents folks like the postal inspectos and FBI from taking an interest in them. After all, they just sell the fake item over again to someone else who doesn't complain.

Jim

November 23, 2012, 01:55 PM	#1
cjwils Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: Washington state Posts: 401	Beware of Little John's Auction for old guns I want to warn you about my recent experience with Little John's Auction Service and Little John's Antique Arms, Inc, based in Orange Calif. They deal mostly with antique and curio and relic firearms. In the past, I used their internet service to bid on and win a couple of antique pistols that were accurately described and were in good condition. But I am disgusted with my experience with their most recent auction. Using the internet, I was the high bidder on these two antique pistols: Remington Elliot 5-shot derringer: Little Johns described the action as "good." They say they use the NRA definitions of gun quality. NRA says that "good" means that the action is in good working order. This gun was delivered to me with the firing pin missing. Does that seem like a "good" action? Is a gun with a missing firing pin in good working order? Little John's photos and their complete description did not indicate in any way that the gun was missing a critical part. Rupertus pepperbox: Little Johns described the action as "working." The rest of the description and the photos did not indicate any missing or broken parts, but the gun was delivered to me with an important part of the action broken off and lying loose in the package. I am not sure whether the broken part can be repaired, and the gun does not work correctly without it. The package was delivered by Fedex in exceptionally good condition with no sign of any damage during shipping, so there is no way that the shipper can be blamed for broken or missing parts. I emailed Little John's multiple times to complain and explain the problems, but they did not bother to reply. Their Terms and Conditions of Sale include a "sold as is" clause, but another part of the Terms and Conditions of Sale says that Little John's "warrants the accuracy of the catalog descriptions." It is clear to me that their descriptions were faulty and incomplete. If you have an interest in bidding on any guns in future Little John's auctions, beware that a similar situation could happen to you.

November 23, 2012, 05:20 PM	#2
cjwils Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: Washington state Posts: 401	After I sent 3 emails, they got back to me and promised a refund. The problem seems to be resolved.

November 24, 2012, 11:37 PM	#3
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Every once in a while I am having trouble with a company and it seems when I post a complaint on here and then get a quick and exemplary response. Wouldn't be that difficult to set up a search to check the web for discussion about your business, so I am always left wondering.

November 25, 2012, 10:26 AM	#4
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	One thing to consider is some of the auction sites do not have a clue about firearms or anything they are selling, thus communication is paramount. I have never liked "Sold as is" However, in purchasing something that is to be sold as is, credit card (CC) would be my prefered method. With a CC you have some protection & can dispute the charge. I always like dealers that offer returns within 3 or so days if not satisfied. However, you do pay to ship it back. I have always liked Auction Arms because sellers must offer a return period or they are not welcome. Appreciate the warning.

November 25, 2012, 04:34 PM	#5
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	I wish you hadn't made this post, now I have another place to shop (spend money I shouldn't). I didn't expect what I found when I went to their site, looks like a first class place, not someone running a gunshop out of their garage. Could there be a misunderstanding, sure. The catalog was huge and very diversified so I wouldn't expect them to be an expert on every item. As long as the matter was resolved fairly thats all I would ask for.

November 25, 2012, 10:21 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The real fakers usually respond right away and send a refund on receipt of the item back. It costs them little, and prevents folks like the postal inspectos and FBI from taking an interest in them. After all, they just sell the fake item over again to someone else who doesn't complain. Jim