Action worn when barrel worn out?

brokenanew · October 30, 2012, 03:30 PM

Quick question. By the time my barrel is worn out, will the action be worn out as well?

Rifle is a Remmy .308 VTR. When my accuracy starts going to pot I would like to switch it out with a Krieger or something way better than stock. Does that mean I need to change the action? Really not wanting to bc money is always a concern.

Brian Pfleuger · October 30, 2012, 03:32 PM

No.

kilotanker22 · October 30, 2012, 03:36 PM

As long as you take care of the rifle. The action should well out last the barrel especially a Remington 700.

By the way what caliber Vtr? If a 223 it will take many rounds to wear the barrel out

warbirdlover · October 30, 2012, 03:43 PM

Actions should last your lifetime.

coyota1 · October 30, 2012, 04:53 PM

Sometimes little things need replacing from time to time, like firing pins, extractor springs MAYBE, but the bolt and receiver will see you to your grave. I hope you find this comforting.

Slamfire · October 30, 2012, 06:54 PM

After examining several design books, I am of the opinion that bolts and receivers are designed for an "infinite" number of load cycles. The load is the standard pressure cartridge the action was originally intended to use.

Conversions, such as Mauser 98 actions converted to 300 Win Mag, 458 Win Mag, these cartridges provide more bolt thrust than an 8mm and these conversions you would expect the bolt, maybe the receiver seats, to crack at some point. This FN action was in 264 Winchester and obviously something went wrong, probably hot loads and the additional bolt thrust from a belted magnum case.

One friend of mine has a 6.5 Grendel conversion using modified 223 Remington bolts in AR lowers. The 6.5 Grendel has a wider base and therefore produces more bolt thrust than a .223. Lug cracking is so common that my friend received two bolts from the gunsmith, one to use till its lugs crack, the other to finish out the barrel.

A gunsmith I used told me he had fired a Ruger M77 action so much he replaced eleven barrels. There was some lug set back, but not so much to make the action unusable.

Gunplummer · October 30, 2012, 09:06 PM

I don't know what the heat treating process for an FN is, but if that would be a Mauser I would say the heat treating was done incorrectly. I have seen a few Mauser re-barrels that had "accident" loads run through them and there was evidence of bolt lug and receiver lug set back before cracking.
As for the 6.5 Grendel, the bolt face has to be opened up too much. I did a 6.8 with a .223 bolt and it took a lot of the bolt lugs away. With the Grendel change over, is more a matter of downgrading the strength of the bolt than too much of an increase in thrust.

Slamfire · November 1, 2012, 09:57 AM

Quote:

I don't know what the heat treating process for an FN is, but if that would be a Mauser I would say the heat treating was done incorrectly. I have seen a few Mauser re-barrels that had "accident" loads run through them and there was evidence of bolt lug and receiver lug set back before cracking

.

Wish I knew more about the FN, it could have been too brittle. I have seen pictures of M70 cracked lugs due to the short magnums, so heck if I know.

sc928porsche · November 2, 2012, 03:00 PM

Since you wouldnt be changing the cartridge, but just a rebarrel, no. But it wouldnt hurt to lap the lugs and square the bolt face at that time

Big Shrek · November 4, 2012, 01:25 AM

So many rifles/pistols are killed by "hot-load" reloaders that there ought to be a section dedicated to it...
One pretty much has to be as OCD as Monk to be a proper reloader...and fairly interruption-free...
not to mention being familiar with your particular round's specs and why you shouldn't exceed 'em...

The thing that tends to wear out actions is failure to clean & maintain...
burnt powder leftovers tend to act like sandpaper...
thats why you only use a Single Drop of oil on the whole action...if that much...

sc928porsche · November 4, 2012, 12:11 PM

Nah...........just use lots of cutting oil on that dirty gun and lap-r-in. Just joking.

brokenanew · November 6, 2012, 11:49 AM

Thanks guys. A little more comforting. I wont be making any conversions regarding caliber. Staying with the tried and true .308. Just wanted to look at getting a good accurate barrel once the stock barrel starts to dip in accuracy. Ive been suggested Krieger thus far. Any other suggestions on barrels?

The gun overall is well taken care of. I'm kind of OCD.

johnwilliamson062 · November 7, 2012, 01:52 PM

On the FN, what was the result of that failure?
Looks sort of like a bolt flying back into your eye failure from here.

cw308 · November 7, 2012, 02:33 PM

How many rounds have you fired with this barrel. Are you using it for target shooting or hunting. I have at least 2500 rounds down my Rem.700 LTR 308 cal. & still shoots 3/4" groups at 200 yards. Over heating the barrel is most of the problem, let the barrel cool down 1 min. between shots if target shooting. clean after each outing and your barrel should be good for at least 5000 rounds. When it's time to change the barrel have it trued up (blue printed) & bed the action if your looking for accuracy.Hope I helped , Be Safe out there Chris

geetarman · November 8, 2012, 08:21 AM

From my experience, you will wear out MANY barrels before you have any kind of problem with the action as long as you are not hot rodding loads.

Bolt guns are really fine actions.

October 30, 2012, 03:30 PM	#1
brokenanew Member Join Date: September 14, 2012 Posts: 83	Action worn when barrel worn out? Quick question. By the time my barrel is worn out, will the action be worn out as well? Rifle is a Remmy .308 VTR. When my accuracy starts going to pot I would like to switch it out with a Krieger or something way better than stock. Does that mean I need to change the action? Really not wanting to bc money is always a concern.

October 30, 2012, 03:32 PM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	No. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

October 30, 2012, 06:54 PM	#6
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	After examining several design books, I am of the opinion that bolts and receivers are designed for an "infinite" number of load cycles. The load is the standard pressure cartridge the action was originally intended to use. Conversions, such as Mauser 98 actions converted to 300 Win Mag, 458 Win Mag, these cartridges provide more bolt thrust than an 8mm and these conversions you would expect the bolt, maybe the receiver seats, to crack at some point. This FN action was in 264 Winchester and obviously something went wrong, probably hot loads and the additional bolt thrust from a belted magnum case. One friend of mine has a 6.5 Grendel conversion using modified 223 Remington bolts in AR lowers. The 6.5 Grendel has a wider base and therefore produces more bolt thrust than a .223. Lug cracking is so common that my friend received two bolts from the gunsmith, one to use till its lugs crack, the other to finish out the barrel. A gunsmith I used told me he had fired a Ruger M77 action so much he replaced eleven barrels. There was some lug set back, but not so much to make the action unusable. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

November 2, 2012, 03:00 PM	#9
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	Since you wouldnt be changing the cartridge, but just a rebarrel, no. But it wouldnt hurt to lap the lugs and square the bolt face at that time __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

November 4, 2012, 01:25 AM	#10
Big Shrek Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: NorthWest Florida Posts: 1,358	So many rifles/pistols are killed by "hot-load" reloaders that there ought to be a section dedicated to it... One pretty much has to be as OCD as Monk to be a proper reloader...and fairly interruption-free... not to mention being familiar with your particular round's specs and why you shouldn't exceed 'em... The thing that tends to wear out actions is failure to clean & maintain... burnt powder leftovers tend to act like sandpaper... thats why you only use a Single Drop of oil on the whole action...if that much... __________________ Marlin Specialist Calico Specialist A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.

October 30, 2012, 03:36 PM	#3
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	As long as you take care of the rifle. The action should well out last the barrel especially a Remington 700. By the way what caliber Vtr? If a 223 it will take many rounds to wear the barrel out

October 30, 2012, 03:43 PM	#4
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	Actions should last your lifetime.

October 30, 2012, 04:53 PM	#5
coyota1 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: West Michigan Posts: 663	Sometimes little things need replacing from time to time, like firing pins, extractor springs MAYBE, but the bolt and receiver will see you to your grave. I hope you find this comforting.

October 30, 2012, 09:06 PM	#7
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I don't know what the heat treating process for an FN is, but if that would be a Mauser I would say the heat treating was done incorrectly. I have seen a few Mauser re-barrels that had "accident" loads run through them and there was evidence of bolt lug and receiver lug set back before cracking. As for the 6.5 Grendel, the bolt face has to be opened up too much. I did a 6.8 with a .223 bolt and it took a lot of the bolt lugs away. With the Grendel change over, is more a matter of downgrading the strength of the bolt than too much of an increase in thrust.

November 4, 2012, 12:11 PM	#11
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	Nah...........just use lots of cutting oil on that dirty gun and lap-r-in. Just joking. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

November 6, 2012, 11:49 AM	#12
brokenanew Member Join Date: September 14, 2012 Posts: 83	Thanks guys. A little more comforting. I wont be making any conversions regarding caliber. Staying with the tried and true .308. Just wanted to look at getting a good accurate barrel once the stock barrel starts to dip in accuracy. Ive been suggested Krieger thus far. Any other suggestions on barrels? The gun overall is well taken care of. I'm kind of OCD.

November 7, 2012, 01:52 PM	#13
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	On the FN, what was the result of that failure? Looks sort of like a bolt flying back into your eye failure from here.

November 7, 2012, 02:33 PM	#14
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	How many rounds have you fired with this barrel. Are you using it for target shooting or hunting. I have at least 2500 rounds down my Rem.700 LTR 308 cal. & still shoots 3/4" groups at 200 yards. Over heating the barrel is most of the problem, let the barrel cool down 1 min. between shots if target shooting. clean after each outing and your barrel should be good for at least 5000 rounds. When it's time to change the barrel have it trued up (blue printed) & bed the action if your looking for accuracy.Hope I helped , Be Safe out there Chris

November 8, 2012, 08:21 AM	#15
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	From my experience, you will wear out MANY barrels before you have any kind of problem with the action as long as you are not hot rodding loads. Bolt guns are really fine actions. __________________ Geetarman Carpe Cerveza