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Old February 24, 2012, 09:33 PM   #26
Frank Ettin
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Originally Posted by Nnobby45
Most, by far, videos of actual shootings show two handed shooting...
On the other hand, according to the 2009 NYPD Firearm Discharge Report, 38% of officers reporting their shooting technique used in a violent encounter used their sidearm one-handed.
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Old February 24, 2012, 10:23 PM   #27
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nate45 is right

thank you, nate45, for your remarks and links. In my practice for SD shooting, I find the eye level method (Cooper's Modern Technique) is the only way I can get accuracy and rapid fire together. Especially with a snub nose revolver!!
Just point shooting either from hip or waist high was just a waste of ammo with nothing more than a "spray and pray" effect. I call it the "Hollywood Method".
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Old February 24, 2012, 10:42 PM   #28
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Perusing my copy of No Second Place Winner I see Bill Jordan uses every thing from "hip" shooting to the Isoceles Stance and I have always remembered Charlie Askins' definition of the "belly gun"-"You place it against your enemy's belly and pull the trigger." Granted those two gents were a lot more talented than the rest of us, but I think there is something to be said for not relying on The Stance but developing a variety of postures that can be used depending on the situation.

Last edited by SIGSHR; February 26, 2012 at 02:56 PM.
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Old February 25, 2012, 12:03 AM   #29
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First off the word 'Stance' is something you practice on a cold range and then adapt it to the real world. You learn it well, practice it often, and then adapt as the situation presents itself.

Second, no one 'stance' will solver all problems.

And third, no one stance will fit every individual.

In a general sense you need two, er, 'stances' or maybe three at the minimum.

You need a form of two handed shooting for the times (about 90 percent of 'em) you have the time to use those two hands. This could be a Weaver, Chapman, Isosceles, reverse Weaver, etc.. I don't care what the top competition shooters use, experiment and find out which one works best for YOU.

Then you need a form of one handed fire, or 'stance', for the times you will only be able to use one hand for any number of reasons. These stances are not real codified but usually you step forward with the shooting side's foot and thrust the weapon completely forward before either using the sights or the top of the slide (point shooting that is.)

Lastingly you will need a form of hip/retention shooting for those very fast extreme close range confrontations. Be it speed rock, retention, Center Axis Relock (CAR), 1/4 hip point shooting, etc...

Which 'stance' is best? You need to experiment and find out which. And that means alot of range time which is good all in itself.

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Old February 25, 2012, 02:04 AM   #30
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There are some pretty good shooting instructors and schools out there, and none emphasize one handed shooting over two handed.
Probably because the never been in a situation where they had to do a building search, or walk around with a flashlight, or have to open a door, or push a loved one back,push them out of the way of danger, or had to hold onto one bandit while facing another, or push a bandit's weapon aside while he drew his own pistol.

I could go on forever, but you get the ideal. If I were to go to a pistol/revolver class and found the instructor didn't stress one handed (both hands one at a time), I'd find another instructor.
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Old February 25, 2012, 08:30 AM   #31
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Let me explain my comment about the bowling pin match I witnessed. I'm not saying being able to clear a table of bowling pins quickly is not a useful skill transferable to a real life situation. I'm just pointing out that some of them weren't very good at it and one or two had pistol malfunctions of some sort. I was very impressed with one man using a S&W double action revolver in .45. He did the fast reload I've ever seen with a revolver.

Without elaborating here, I'd also like to say that "stance" connotes something rather more static than is desirable, although I also realize that it necessarily so. I know from the fencing I did while I was in college that you more or less maintain the same stance all the time but you pretty much move around as much as a boxer, only just back and forth. Now fencing is a good example of a martial sport that has been gamed to the extent that it is virtually unrelated to sword fighting in the same way that a .22 short Olympic target pistol is unrelated to a combat handgun, at least one that's not a .22 rimfire. That doesn't make the whole thing useless, of course, and I'm surprised there isn't more emphasis here (in the forum generally) about practicing with a .22. Maybe it's just understood.

I'm also a believer in one handed shooting, though hardly to the exclusion of everything else. I am not a fan of hip shooting, however, using the literal meaning.
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Old February 25, 2012, 09:21 AM   #32
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During my sheriff's department firarm training we were taught to shoot at point blank range after drawing. Keep your off-hand out of the way.
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Old February 25, 2012, 10:47 AM   #33
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Fiddletown and Nnobby45 are both right, if we accept Fiddletown's figures. If 38% shot of the cited shootings were one-handed, that leaves 62%, or a bit over half again as many, being two-handed. Two-handed is a substantial majority and one-handed is a very significant minority, which would seem to be further evidence that defensive shootings are dynamic events that require flexibility and a wide variety of techniques to give one the best chance of survival.
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Old February 25, 2012, 12:00 PM   #34
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I really wouldn't presume to try and tell people what to do, or try to coach them on the net. I don't like trying to do it IRL, more less over the net. So the following isn't a how to, its just an example of some of the things I do.

I was just recoil training myself over the last few days. I do it by drawing and firing my S&W 29-2, with the aid of a range timer. I use 300 grain XTPs, loaded over 21 grains of H-110 with a CCI 350 primer. That, along with 250 grain Keith types are my standard .44 Magnum loads.

I prefer the Magna N-frame grips for drawing and point shooting. For me they point well. I usually draw and fire an accurate, one handed, double tap in 1.5 to 1.75 seconds with my .44. I also fire three round, bursts with two hands. I rarely miss the A-zone from 3-7 yards.

After a session with my Model 29-2, my Model 19s, 1911s, Hi-Power, etc seem to have soft recoil. My .44 stings a little, actually more than a little, but not too bad.

I've been playing with toy guns and practicing fighting since before I can remember, like 3 maybe. I've always been fascinated by war and martial arts. I got to have my own(thanks Dad) .357 Magnum, a Colt Trooper MkIII when I was 14.

What I'm getting at, is there is no way, now at 47, that I can translate a life time of practice into an internet post. Nor can I teach someone else how over the internet. There is no certain handgun one can by, or rote method that will make anyone a gunfighter. There is no 'best' way to stand, etc, it all comes from practice. People who are inexperienced need competent IRL instruction to get them started.
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Old February 25, 2012, 04:56 PM   #35
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Whatever works--fast--

at the given distance and circumstances.

If you don`t think point shooting works, revisit the Ruby/Oswald video.
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