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February 20, 2012, 09:16 AM | #26 |
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If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. - Thomas Jefferson
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February 20, 2012, 12:49 PM | #27 | |
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Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war. |
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February 20, 2012, 02:08 PM | #28 |
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If someone can articulate a position, and is willing and eager to discuss that position, I think I would put up with almost any amount civil disobedience from them.
If someone is merely parroting tired old talking points, and is unwilling to engage in reasonable discussion, I think they give up the privilege of having their civil disobedience tolerated.
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“The egg hatched...” “...the egg hatched... and a hundred baby spiders came out...” (blade runner) “Who are you?” “A friend. I'm here to prevent you from making a mistake.” “You have no idea what I'm doing here, friend.” “In specific terms, no, but I swore an oath to protect the world...” (continuum) “It's a goal you won't understand until later. Your job is to make sure he doesn't achieve the goal.” (bsg) Last edited by tyme; February 20, 2012 at 02:26 PM. |
February 20, 2012, 05:23 PM | #29 |
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who's "we"? and who determines 'arguably legal'? Is the original idea here moral justification for breaking laws that are not legally binding, or mere rationalization for doing anything somebody feels like?
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February 20, 2012, 06:27 PM | #30 |
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I believe that there are laws and that there aregod given rights. I believe that the right to defend yourself is a god given right, some places it is against the law.
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February 20, 2012, 08:15 PM | #31 |
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In some places it is against the law to defend yourself with a firearm. Is that a just law that infringes on the Constitution that should be followed?
Or can/should that be ignored if changes through normal channels cannot be effected? Suppose someone wants to carry a gun in that jurisdiction for personal protection? Does that fact make that person any more dangerous to you than one who follows the law in another jurisdiction that mandates a permit to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right?
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February 20, 2012, 10:32 PM | #32 | |
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Who is the ideal citizen? Someone who can reason and make moral decisions on his own or the obedient, blindly loyal law abiding citizen who cannot think for himself?
Then there is also the matter of de jure and de facto. In Mexico, by law, firearms are strictly controlled, however: From http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/145996...stance-on-guns Quote:
Reason for edit: Found better example
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Victim: A hapless individual who waits for third party intervention and/or gambles their life on what little good remains in the heart of their attacker. Last edited by Odd; February 21, 2012 at 04:50 PM. |
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February 21, 2012, 12:53 PM | #33 |
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Alas! Tis not so simple, for such a person would hardly count himself as a citizen of anything, would he? And does it follow that a person who follows the law (and even when there are only ten, it is difficult) is not thinking?
At the same time, I realize that some who are among us do not obey the law at all, if no one is watching.
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February 21, 2012, 01:53 PM | #34 | |
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February 21, 2012, 02:39 PM | #35 |
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People do it here just like over there and its from fear to follow the law blindly.
Everyone has an innate desire to be a good guy and stay out of trouble. With guns its the same. If I follow the law and do what they say, perhaps they will leave me alone and let me be with my family... I better stop there before I offend anyone... |
February 21, 2012, 02:43 PM | #36 | |
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If they take my guns, I'm going out the next day and replace it and don't say that it can't be had on the black market because anything can for the price. |
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February 21, 2012, 02:48 PM | #37 |
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"Everyone has an innate desire to be a good guy and stay out of trouble."
Everyone? What about the sociopaths and psychopaths? Ever work a psychiatric caseload of any sort? That reminds me of a man I had to evaluate at the old VA state pen on Spring Street, but that story will have to keep for another time. |
February 21, 2012, 02:57 PM | #38 | |
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February 21, 2012, 03:36 PM | #39 | |||
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February 21, 2012, 03:57 PM | #40 | |
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Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war. |
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February 21, 2012, 04:50 PM | #41 |
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Okay, go ahead. We can form our own little soviet.
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Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds. |
February 21, 2012, 05:42 PM | #42 | |
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Making allowances for nearly everyone with different ideas of what the law should be law is not wise. It is very much the same as blind obedience to the law. Either way you are lying to yourself.
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Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war. |
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February 21, 2012, 08:23 PM | #43 |
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...and, we're completely off topic.
Whatever that topic was.
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