38 Spcl Loads using the "Dot" powders?

Qtiphky · February 9, 2012, 06:49 AM

I have been using Unique, but thought I would try something a little different. The loading sheet says 7.0 grains of Blue Dot for starting and never exceed 7.3. The Sierra manual says that 8.3 is starting load for a 125 grain bullet. I loaded up 15 at 7, 20 at 7.5 and 15 at 8. Has anyone ever used Blue Dot, Green Dot or Red Dot for 38 Specials and what were the results.

It is going to be awhile until I can test these and was hoping to get some thoughts before I go. The bullets are 125 grain Rainier flat points.

thanks.

griz · February 9, 2012, 07:43 AM

I suspect you already understand this, but those three are very different powders. I know a common cowboy action load is the 125 gr lead bullet with Red Dot, but closer to three grains. Very mild.

sundog · February 9, 2012, 08:59 AM

Red Dot is a fantastic 38 Spl powder. The problem with using it is that the small charges of fluffy, flake powder don't meter all that well in many powder dumps.

As an aside but along the same line, Green Dot is a great powder in 45 acp and 44 Spl and Mag for light to mid range loads. Same problem in metering light charges.

Adamantium · February 9, 2012, 11:38 AM

Green dot works great for 38spl but won't meter well at such low charge weights. Works fine with Lee dippers though.

oneounceload · February 9, 2012, 02:52 PM

Their new one, Clay Dot is the mirror of their competitor's Clays - use the same data

Qtiphky · February 9, 2012, 04:36 PM

I do use Green Dot for 45 ACP currently, I like it. Using the Lee Perfect Powder measure last night gave me perfect drops with the Blue Dot. I don't seem to have problems with powders measuring out right, I measure the first 5 and if they are right, then I measure about every third one, which last night, were perfect. The Red Dot charge is about 3.7 grains according to the sheet.

Thanks, that's what I needed to know.

Slamfire · February 9, 2012, 06:36 PM

Green Dot works very well in the 38 Special. Blue Dot is not appropriate. It gives extreme spreads in the hundreds of feet, obviously it does not work well in low pressure application.

Bullseye is my favorite, but Green Dot performed well enough that if I got lots of cheap Green Dot, I would use it.

Code:

S&W M637-2  2" barrel 			
					
125   LBBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP 	
9-Apr-06	T = 59 °F				
Ave Vel =	760.4	 			
Std Dev =	27.33				 
ES =	82.1				 
High  =	798.9			 	 
Low  =	716.8			 	 
N =	19				 
					
					
				
125   LBBRNFP 6.5 grs Blue Dot Mixed cases WSP 	
9-Apr-06	T = 64 °F				
Ave Vel =	632.6	 		
Std Dev =	77.74			 	 
ES =	185.3			 	 
High  =	737.6			 	 
Low  =	552.2			 	 
N =	5				 
					
					
125   LBBRNFP 7.0  grs Blue Dot Mixed cases WSP 	
9-Apr-06	T = 64 °F				
Ave Vel =	634.1	 		
Std Dev =	59.99				 
ES =	190.6				 
High  =	736.7				 
Low  =	546			 	 
N =	10				 
					
					
					
125   LBBRNFP 7.5 grs Blue Dot Mixed cases WSP 	
22-Apr-06	T = 68 °F				
Ave Vel =	712.2	 			
Std Dev =	76.64				 
ES =	269.5				 
High  =	850.6				 
Low  =	581.1			 	 
N =	25				 
					
					
125   LBBRNFP 8.0 grs Blue Dot Mixed cases WSP 	
22-Apr-06	T = 68 °F				
Ave Vel =	823.6	 		
Std Dev =	108.9				 
ES =	436.2				 
High  =	1014				 
Low  =	578.1				 
N =	20				 
					
					
125   LBBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot BE 532 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07	T = 48 °F				
Ave Vel =	763.9	 			
Std Dev =	22			 	 
ES =	78			 	 
High  =	806.5			 	 
Low  =	728.5			 	 
N =	15				 
					
 			
125   LBBRNFP 4.5 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07	T = 48 °F				
POI, little leading	
					
Ave Vel =	813.2	 		 	
Std Dev =	44.55			 	 
ES =	176.5			 	 
High  =	903.3			 	 
Low  =	726.8			 	 
N =	24				 
					
125   LBBRNFP 5.0 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07	T = 48 °F				
1-2" above POI, more leading
					
Ave Vel =	867.3	 		 	
Std Dev =	57.54			 	 
ES =	178.1			 	 
High  =	966			 	 
Low  =	787.8			 	 
N =	21				 
					
125 JHP (W/W) 4.5 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07	T = 48 °F	
					
Ave Vel =	760.4	 		 	
Std Dev =	68			 	 
ES =	56			 	 
High  =	205.1			 	 
Low  =	885.4			 	 
N =	13				 
					
125 JHP (W/W) 5.0 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07	T = 48 °F	25 yds accuracy OK, accurate POI @ 7 yds
					
Ave Vel =	808.9	 		 	
Std Dev =	56.82			 	 
ES =	95.46	 		 	 
High  =	914.2	 		 	 
Low  =	712.8			 	 
N =	20

Code:

4" S&W M10-5 				
					
110 JHP  4.6 grs Green Dot  Mixed cases FED 100		
12-Dec-11	T = 52 °F				
					
Ave Vel =	846.2	 			
Std Dev =	64.89	 			
ES =	212.5	 			
High =	976.7	 			
Low =	764.2	 			
N =	12	 			
					
					
125 gr JHP 4.2 grs Green Dot thrown, CCI 500, mixed cases	
24-Jul-99	T = 100 °F !				
Ave Vel =	782.7	 	 		
Std Dev =	33.5	 	 		
ES =	111	 	 		
High  =	834	 	 		
Low  =	723	 	 		
N =	12

rg1 · February 9, 2012, 07:21 PM

I agree with Slamfire's statement that Blue Dot is not a good powder for .38 Special and you will get wild velocity variations Plus you could get a blooper load that will stick a bullet in your barrel. For Blue Dot to work at all you need a tight bullet grip in the case and use a very heavy roll crimp. I would'nt use it at all. I personally have seen Blue Dot loaded .38 bullets hit the ground 10 feet in front of the shooter. Listen and feel for any round that doesn't feel right or sound right and if so carefully check your barrel for a bullet stuck in it. It's just too slow burning in the .38 Special.

jepp2 · February 9, 2012, 09:18 PM

I used to load a lot of Blue Dot in 125 gr. 357 Mag loads. I loaded them pretty hot and they were very accurate. I kind of liked the smell of the powder smoke.

This load violates the Blue Dot warning, so I don't load it any longer. Any lower pressure load using Blue Dot proved to be very disappointing. For your load using Ranier bullets I would go with either Red Dot or Green Dot, depending on how much pressure I was going after.

I have always been successful with the Dot powders in my Dillon powder measures. It also works well with Unique. Kind of unusual compared with most folks experience.

joneb · February 9, 2012, 10:33 PM

I gave up on Blue Dot for my handguns. I am burning whats left in my .308 Win. 125gr Nos BT with 16gr of BD gives me a reduced load the shoots .75" at 100 yrds

warningshot · February 10, 2012, 05:35 AM

Loading any one of the Dot powders in a 38 is like buying new clothes to go DISCO dancing.

As far back as the 1960's, the NRA American Rifle Magazine would often publish the 38 special pet loads the competitors used to shoot at Camp Perry. DOT powder? Shotgun events yes...pistol...no way.

A PPC shooter I know won't change his Red Dot 148 HBWC 700 pfs load for lover nor money. He doesn't go anywhere without the brush to clean under the star.

Qtiphky · February 10, 2012, 08:17 AM

I use Blue Dot for my 357 loads and it works great. Extremely accurate and it feels like a hot load. I was concerned that Blue Dot would be too hot for the 38. I have used Unique for about a year now in most all of my handguns and for some reason it seems to give me 1 squibb per 50 with the 38. They are always real obvious and annoying, and it only happens with the 38's. Not the 9's, 40's, 45's - just the 38's. I had a few cans of the "Dots" still on the shelf and thought I would try them, that's why I asked.

Only loaded 50 of each with three different charges so I will definitely pay close attention when testing them.

Fullthrottle · February 11, 2012, 12:51 AM

From my expierence Blue dot is fine in .357mag , and good in .40s&w, but terrible in .38 spcl!
With .38 I have had unburned powder all over the place and less than great accuracy.

Once I use up my blue dot I won't likely buy another pound of it, as I have found better powder for my uses!

warningshot · February 11, 2012, 04:25 AM

Seems anytime you hear someone using DOT anything you also hear the the 'squib' word. Go figure.

I heard Blue Dot works in 30 Carbine and 9mm with 147 grain full power loads.

February 9, 2012, 06:49 AM	#1
Qtiphky Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Location: Upper Michigan, above the Mackinac Bridge Posts: 568	38 Spcl Loads using the "Dot" powders? I have been using Unique, but thought I would try something a little different. The loading sheet says 7.0 grains of Blue Dot for starting and never exceed 7.3. The Sierra manual says that 8.3 is starting load for a 125 grain bullet. I loaded up 15 at 7, 20 at 7.5 and 15 at 8. Has anyone ever used Blue Dot, Green Dot or Red Dot for 38 Specials and what were the results. It is going to be awhile until I can test these and was hoping to get some thoughts before I go. The bullets are 125 grain Rainier flat points. thanks.

February 9, 2012, 08:59 AM	#3
sundog Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Green Country, OK Posts: 782	Red Dot is a fantastic 38 Spl powder. The problem with using it is that the small charges of fluffy, flake powder don't meter all that well in many powder dumps. As an aside but along the same line, Green Dot is a great powder in 45 acp and 44 Spl and Mag for light to mid range loads. Same problem in metering light charges. __________________ safety first

February 9, 2012, 11:38 AM	#4
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	Green dot works great for 38spl but won't meter well at such low charge weights. Works fine with Lee dippers though. __________________ New gun, same ol' shot.

February 10, 2012, 05:35 AM	#11
warningshot Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2009 Posts: 995	It is over for DOT anything powder for .38 Specials. Loading any one of the Dot powders in a 38 is like buying new clothes to go DISCO dancing. As far back as the 1960's, the NRA American Rifle Magazine would often publish the 38 special pet loads the competitors used to shoot at Camp Perry. DOT powder? Shotgun events yes...pistol...no way. A PPC shooter I know won't change his Red Dot 148 HBWC 700 pfs load for lover nor money. He doesn't go anywhere without the brush to clean under the star.

February 11, 2012, 12:51 AM	#13
Fullthrottle Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2009 Posts: 280	From my expierence Blue dot is fine in .357mag , and good in .40s&w, but terrible in .38 spcl! With .38 I have had unburned powder all over the place and less than great accuracy. Once I use up my blue dot I won't likely buy another pound of it, as I have found better powder for my uses! __________________ When seconds count, why is help minutes away?

February 9, 2012, 07:43 AM	#2
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	I suspect you already understand this, but those three are very different powders. I know a common cowboy action load is the 125 gr lead bullet with Red Dot, but closer to three grains. Very mild.

February 9, 2012, 02:52 PM	#5
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Their new one, Clay Dot is the mirror of their competitor's Clays - use the same data

February 9, 2012, 04:36 PM	#6
Qtiphky Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Location: Upper Michigan, above the Mackinac Bridge Posts: 568	I do use Green Dot for 45 ACP currently, I like it. Using the Lee Perfect Powder measure last night gave me perfect drops with the Blue Dot. I don't seem to have problems with powders measuring out right, I measure the first 5 and if they are right, then I measure about every third one, which last night, were perfect. The Red Dot charge is about 3.7 grains according to the sheet. Thanks, that's what I needed to know.

February 9, 2012, 07:21 PM	#8
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	I agree with Slamfire's statement that Blue Dot is not a good powder for .38 Special and you will get wild velocity variations Plus you could get a blooper load that will stick a bullet in your barrel. For Blue Dot to work at all you need a tight bullet grip in the case and use a very heavy roll crimp. I would'nt use it at all. I personally have seen Blue Dot loaded .38 bullets hit the ground 10 feet in front of the shooter. Listen and feel for any round that doesn't feel right or sound right and if so carefully check your barrel for a bullet stuck in it. It's just too slow burning in the .38 Special.

February 9, 2012, 09:18 PM	#9
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	I used to load a lot of Blue Dot in 125 gr. 357 Mag loads. I loaded them pretty hot and they were very accurate. I kind of liked the smell of the powder smoke. This load violates the Blue Dot warning, so I don't load it any longer. Any lower pressure load using Blue Dot proved to be very disappointing. For your load using Ranier bullets I would go with either Red Dot or Green Dot, depending on how much pressure I was going after. I have always been successful with the Dot powders in my Dillon powder measures. It also works well with Unique. Kind of unusual compared with most folks experience.

February 9, 2012, 10:33 PM	#10
joneb Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Location: Central , OR Posts: 1,888	I gave up on Blue Dot for my handguns. I am burning whats left in my .308 Win. 125gr Nos BT with 16gr of BD gives me a reduced load the shoots .75" at 100 yrds

February 10, 2012, 08:17 AM	#12
Qtiphky Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Location: Upper Michigan, above the Mackinac Bridge Posts: 568	I use Blue Dot for my 357 loads and it works great. Extremely accurate and it feels like a hot load. I was concerned that Blue Dot would be too hot for the 38. I have used Unique for about a year now in most all of my handguns and for some reason it seems to give me 1 squibb per 50 with the 38. They are always real obvious and annoying, and it only happens with the 38's. Not the 9's, 40's, 45's - just the 38's. I had a few cans of the "Dots" still on the shelf and thought I would try them, that's why I asked. Only loaded 50 of each with three different charges so I will definitely pay close attention when testing them.

February 11, 2012, 04:25 AM	#14
warningshot Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2009 Posts: 995	Seems anytime you hear someone using DOT anything you also hear the the 'squib' word. Go figure. I heard Blue Dot works in 30 Carbine and 9mm with 147 grain full power loads.