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Old December 15, 2011, 11:47 PM   #1
kraigwy
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End of Elk Hunting in the Big Horns Mtns, Wyoming

Circle Park, Big Horn Mountains, WY

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Old December 15, 2011, 11:59 PM   #2
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Nahhh, they are just quite little furry critters that need our protection. They need to eat too you know. Well, that is the Eco wacko nut job interpretation of this picture.

Wow, I counted 25 of those suckers all waiting to go on the kill. I need to bring more ammo with me out in the woods!!!
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Old December 16, 2011, 12:09 AM   #3
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However did those poor elk manage without human bodyguards?

Must have been rough! You have such tender hearts
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Old December 16, 2011, 12:13 AM   #4
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wow...i don't remember seeing that many all at once when I used to live/hunt in that area in the 90s.
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Old December 16, 2011, 12:24 AM   #5
kraigwy
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However did those poor elk manage without human bodyguards?
These arn't native to Wyoming, idiot humans imported them.

[quote]wow...i don't remember seeing that many all at once when I used to live/hunt in that area in the 90s. [quote]

They weren't here in the 90s. They were imported from Canada, put in Yellowstone and they migrated to the Big Horns after destroying the elk herds in the NW part of the state.
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Old December 16, 2011, 12:32 AM   #6
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Wolves once roamed the contiguous United States.

There are thousands and thousands of them in Alaska and Canada. They haven't wiped out the Elk, Moose, Caribou, etc there.
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Old December 16, 2011, 12:39 AM   #7
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There is a reason that Alaska pays folks to keep them to a minimum impact on the game animals.

http://www.enn.com/top_stories/article/6236

Unless of course you want one for a pet:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_a_Mac...ake_a_good_pet

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Old December 16, 2011, 12:51 AM   #8
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they reintroduced them back into yellowstone in '95. Remember quite a fuss from the local ranchers about it. When I left in '97 they weren't a nuisance yet, and there were very few reports of them hunting outside the park.

Once their populations got healthy look out...
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Old December 16, 2011, 01:07 AM   #9
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When did the idiot humans import them? 1897?

There's a picture of Wyoming cowboys who've roped a gray wolf, dated 1897.
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Old December 16, 2011, 09:28 AM   #10
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Wolf Pack Train

The photo is real and was taken by Chadden Hunter in Canada's Wood Buffalo National Park

http://www.wildlifeartjournal.com/bl...ack-train.html
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Old December 16, 2011, 11:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
These arn't native to Wyoming, idiot humans imported them.
Sorry kraigwy, but wolves are indigenous to Wyoming and were eradicated by the 1930s. The first records of wolves being sited in the mountain region of Wyoming was in the early 1800s. Archeological evidence indicates that the wolf has roamed throughout most of the Northern US and Canada for thousands of years.
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Old December 16, 2011, 11:36 AM   #12
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Will Lee, the wolves imported to the Mountain west are a different breed that lived here in the past. These canadian imports are not the same.

MQuail, thanks for posting that link. I recieved the picture in an e-mail. I hope these wolves don't become a problem in the Big Horns, but I know I'm hoping in vain. They have been seen, not in the packs pictured, but they are showing up.

The Big Horns are my favorite place on earth, and I've seen some nice places (spent 22 years all over Alaska).

They've even started showing up in th Black Hills.
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Old December 16, 2011, 11:43 AM   #13
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Kraig, they're Gray Wolves (Canis Lupus) right?

Thats the same wolf species that once ranged the entire US.
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Old December 16, 2011, 12:07 PM   #14
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We moved the wolf from where we wanted to inhabit.
With habitation comes the need to for us to manipulate wild animal populations to suit our needs.

I am pretty sure that the elk populations are not what they were in the early 1800's before man moved into their territory.

Thusly, we do not need too many wolves to be the natural population controller.

With man moving in, came the livestock demands to support the humans. We do not need farmers feeding the wolves.

We eliminated the wolves for good reason (some fear based killin' occurred to be sure) for the most part and it worked fine for long enuff to convince me that wolf reintroduction was not needed at least and a very bad idea at worst....

Brent
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Old December 16, 2011, 12:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
MQuail, thanks for posting that link. I recieved the picture in an e-mail. I hope these wolves don't become a problem in the Big Horns, but I know I'm hoping in vain. They have been seen, not in the packs pictured, but they are showing up.

The Big Horns are my favorite place on earth, and I've seen some nice places (spent 22 years all over Alaska).

They've even started showing up in th Black Hills.
I live in the NE SD. They are here. I saw one not far from Summit SD about 10yrs ago. I think 2 have been shot in the last 10 yrs in East River (east of the Mo River)
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Old December 16, 2011, 12:37 PM   #16
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WRT historical populations of gray wolves: 200 years back there was a lot more lightly-populated territory in the western US. Aside from the bison, the early European travelers commented on the numbers of deer, elk and antelope.

So, we changed all manner of balances of various populations, both animal and human. Absent livestock, there are fewer animals to support a large population of predators--whether it be bears, wolves or cougars.

Seems to me that it won't take all that many wolves to have a population whose demand for food strongly degrades the available supply. IOW, there is a serious need for control of their numbers.

Obviously, some folks feel that "zero" is an appropriate number.

Another "numbers" problem, I guess, would be that of coyotes. As the wolf population declined, the coyote population increased because of reduced competition for food. We still have this larger population of coyotes, and now we add wolves into the equation.
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Old December 16, 2011, 12:50 PM   #17
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I suspect that elk herds are actually better than what they were in the 1800's in Idaho. It just all depends on where you're talking about. Much more of the land in that day was forested, and since then wildfires, timber harvests, agricultural expansions, etc. all improved elk habitat. Elk have increased in population greatly since then.

Idaho had a bounty on wolves early in the 20th Century after they had become an infestation in the state. By the '30's, there weren't any more wolves to turn in for the bounty. As far as I can tell, there wasn't much killing out of "fear." Level headed ranchers were the ones seeing their sheep and cattle go for the dog food, and they put their money where their mouth was - they paid for the wolf bounties.

Hmmm... wolf bounties and ranching organizations paying for them... sounds more effective than taxpayers getting the tab for aerial gunnings. I'm for the wolf gone either way. Just an idea...
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Old December 16, 2011, 12:54 PM   #18
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Shooting coyotes is fun, wolves would be too. You're a sniper Kraig, go out there and pick some off. Wolves aren't an endangered species and WY has a Wolf management plan.
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Old December 16, 2011, 01:29 PM   #19
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There are several wolf subspecies even among the north American gray wolf.

http://www.cosmosmith.com/wolf_classification.html

It seems that our Federal govn't went out of its way to get the biggest and most aggressive subspecies that is out of place here in the Rockies. They are known to even kill grizzly bears in a similar manner to the way some Indians allegedly hunted deer by running them down over a couple day period of time until the deer are too exhausted to run any further. Wolves have been documented killing grizzly bears in a similar manner.

In addition, the Scandanavian nations have sought to eradicate wolves because of the severe public health problem caused by the parasite that they carry. In Idaho, 62% of wolves examined were infested as well with a parasite that is deadly to people. The Russians also spent decades trying to eradicate this parasite with little success. Now the Feds have introduced this invasive wolf subspecies carrying a truly invasive parasite. They propagate the false information that the wolf is good for the ecosystem when in fact, they are ravaging the northern Rockies with little to hope that they will ever be controlled anytime soon.
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Old December 16, 2011, 01:43 PM   #20
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Did the feds sign off on that plan?? I certainly hope so. Last I heard Wyoming was left out of the Wolf Management.
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Old December 16, 2011, 01:46 PM   #21
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Seems the only people who want wolves in the Northern Rockies is the people who don't live in the Norther Rockies.
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Old December 16, 2011, 01:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigwy
Did the feds sign off on that plan??
I guess, I got that off of the Wyoming Game & Fish web site, Wolf Management is the top link.
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Old December 16, 2011, 02:13 PM   #23
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Today, 10:46 AM #21
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Seems the only people who want wolves in the Northern Rockies is the people who don't live in the Norther Rockies.
+1 Kraig. No one up in Northern Idaho wants those critters there for sure, except the Feds.
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Old December 16, 2011, 02:30 PM   #24
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I hunted in Wyoming this year. My family that lives there recommended certain areas to avoid because of the Grizzly. The Grizzly is more aggressive because of the wolves pushing the elk (and other prey) into more populated areas. Now the elk are down amongst the cattle and Wyoming is not a "bangs free" state anymore.

Federal laws over reach. People in the city in Southern California or Florida (just two states picked for an example) are often out of touch with nature, the balance, and the brutality of it.

I think that everyone in the Rocky Mountain West should put aside their "mind your own business" attitude in 2012 and push for legislation to protect wasps, skunks, termites, starlings, hornets, mosquitoes, stray dogs, stray cats, rabbits, rats, mice, and all types of snakes and reptiles. After we get the legislation in place then we should all take turns "re-introducing" animals into cities of our choice! Didn't there used to be jaguars in California?

Sorry, I am being a smart alec, but I am trying to point out the disconnect and over reach that causes such things.
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Old December 16, 2011, 02:31 PM   #25
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and people wonder why idaho is recruiting alaskan trapping experts to actually teach outdoorsmen how to track, trap and hunt these things...they're out there make no mistake. and people also wonder why the elk populations dropped from 17,000 to 2000.

and I cant believe the level of ignorance here. the indigenious wolves of the contiguous US are red wolves. lone hunters, high infant mortality rates, a good 30-50 pounds lighter than gray wolves and they didn't carry disease. they were little more than coyotes.

these are canadian gray wolves. they are adapted to harsher environments than montana, idaho and wyoming so they hunt in packs to take down larger game, they have a non-existant mortality rate for the pups and they are huge. they have adapted to hunt regardless of whether they are hungry or not because they may not see another herd for a long time. they will kill entire herds of elk without eating a single bite on many of them simply becasue they can. pictures of the old timers with wolves are pictures of red wolves, not gray wolves. if they weren't in black and white then maybe some people could open their eyes to the stupidity that was the introduction of gray wolves to the US.

the reason gray wolves aren't out of control in alaska and canada is the same reason that wild pigs aren't out of control in africa, it's their natural habitat, not yellowstone, not the lewis-clark valley, not the bitter roots or the big horns.
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