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Old November 4, 2011, 11:00 AM   #26
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Glad you're ok man. Great job.
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Old November 4, 2011, 11:40 AM   #27
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Yes! Thank God you're okay. Good work and great training. We're all so happy for you I'd want to read your story to my wife but that would be like the male equivalent of nagging.

I do have a question though.

Where / what position do you carry? 4 o'clock? 5 ? IWB?

Whatever you did it worked for you and it's great you showed the restraint and cool-headedness you did. And good trigger control really! It sounds like you were in motion and I'd think an errant twitch (without trigger control) would have changed everything.

I've just started carrying more toward the rear at say 5 o'clock because I've been spending most of my time lately sitting down but I don't think it's as fast as some other positions...

Another question - I wasn't aware that the parking lots have cameras in them. In general is all the parking lot territory covered or just the areas near the front? (this may affect my nose picking. just kidding)

And finally, other reasons I don't think you over-reacted is because 3-on-1 aside, people die of relatively mild trauma to the head. A punch to the temple or falling and hitting your head on the blacktop can cause a bleed in the skull. Making you fall was definitely part of their plan - I can't believe their frame of mind! I also agree with your action that going straight to the firearm was more appropriate because if you had messed around in the middle ground with the crutch as a weapon it may have given more time for them to surround you and who knows if you'd have been able to reach for your firearm with a couple of them holding on to you or if you had been taken to the ground.

Come to think of it, a 5'oclock draw might be difficult from my back.
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Old November 4, 2011, 12:59 PM   #28
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Did they run back into the store to get some clean underwear?

Good to hear everything ended peacefully with no blood spilled.
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Old November 4, 2011, 01:00 PM   #29
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Yes. I agree. Cops should have never took your pistol. But again we can just speak for ourself not others
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Old November 4, 2011, 01:39 PM   #30
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If I was in the same position I probably would've reacted the same way...but less smooth I'm sure. Glad to hear it was ok

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Old November 4, 2011, 01:46 PM   #31
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Glad you are ok and that you didn't have to waste a bullet on one of those scumbags.
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Old November 4, 2011, 02:02 PM   #32
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You handled things very well. Glad you didn't have to shoot one of them (although I wouldn't shed any tears for them if you had been forced to do so.)
As for the couple of complainers about taking your weapon makes perfect sense to temporarily take the weapon while sorting out what happened and perfectly's called officer safety. They have to investigate and determine what actually happened and once they did, they properly returned it.
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Old November 4, 2011, 02:18 PM   #33
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Complainers huh? Ok i can see for that 30 minutes or so but i know of others who get taken for weeks and some never returned. That's not right. Olso I've had cops before i was take my CCW on a traffic stop. Remove from holster and remove bullets and give back I'n pieces after the stop. C mon. When i stop someone who let's me know up front the have CCW or they are carrying legal , i just tell them to leave gun there and don't move to it. I don't care and i believe a law abiding citizen doesn't want to pre warn an officer. Just me i guess. Some like authority just too much. IMO

Last edited by farmerboy; November 4, 2011 at 02:26 PM.
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Old November 4, 2011, 02:48 PM   #34
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My first thought was. "What was the reason for the attack?" It seems like a pretty unusual set of circumstances.

Answering that question may make you change your SOPs and reconsider home security.

Do you have people with a grudge due to a previous case? Is it possible that you were targeted for kidnapping so they could gain access to your valuables or workplace?

Was it a random racially motivated attack?

Did you present a target of opportunity because of the way you dress or the vehicle you drive?

If you are screwing some guys girlfriend, work for a jeweler or driving a $85,000 car, each of those factors imply a different set of risk factors that should be mitigated.

You handled the situation well, but learn a lesson from it to try to avoid finding yourself in a similar one again.
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Old November 4, 2011, 02:55 PM   #35
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Jason, I'm pleased that things turned out the way they did and no one was hurt. Sounds as if your cool thinking and actions saved the day.

P.s Hope that the shoving will not slow down your recovery.
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Old November 4, 2011, 04:38 PM   #36
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3 against one who is on a crutch? You did well and I bet you have a bit more training than most folks do.

Sounds like they wanted to take you down and then.....

Run em out of Iowa, they dont deserve to live here in this fine state.
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Old November 4, 2011, 07:17 PM   #37
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Nice work man..real nice. to have such a cool head not to fire when you had your weapon pointed at him showed some serious 'cool headedness' and self control. Although that was some pretty low class of criminals to attack someone with a obvious disadvantage. (not saying you are week or anything but even bruce lee was busted up at some point ) Some say glad you didnt have to waste a bullet but personally i think that would have been the best use those bullets could be put to.

Oh and as far as getting your gun taken from you for a few minutes that wouldnt have bothered me. I can more than relate to the officer needing to do things as safely as possible. I cannot blame him as i would do the same. However if they would have taken it and not given it back the same day i would have been a little more than upset and gave someone at the pd a ear full. If not returned at all then "getting even" is in order.

Now as far as saying you have a dangerous mindset i can see how that might be but I myself am a 'big fellow' and like a good fight every now and then. Simple fist fights are common enough and the loser will at most have some black eyes loose teeth and maybe pee a little blood and that is at worste. However the situation you described is not a 'simple fist fight' and there was nothing at all extreme about what you did. atleast in my eyes. but that doesnt really mean a whole lot because i dont see eye to eye with alot of people on here
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Old November 5, 2011, 11:40 AM   #38
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I carry 3 o'clock. Galco owb holster. Its a full size 45 so it prints no one seems to notice. Only my nephew ever asked me what it was.

As far as their motives I assume it was just to roll an easy target and get some cash and a phone. Watch is nothing special 150ish bucks. No other jewelry. I had 1K in cash but there is no way they could have known that unless the check out girl relayed it to them. I mentioned that to the officer who took my statement. They were black guys. Maybe banger wannabes but not hard core by any means.

When I say they took my gun it may have been misleading. They asked for it and my permit and took possession of them and my license while they checked stuff out. Warrant checks on me and what not. I would have done the same in their position.

I understand my disposition of being a big fairly well trained guy my be a dangerous one its one judges look at. Not that the 280lbs is all muscle, 40lbs and 10 years ago maybe. Its something you have to consider. In this instance all that went through my mind was I'm being attacked from behind, I'm out numbered and no chance for escape.

One thing I will add to my training is shouting armed citizen because I really did not say anything other then *** after my crutch got kicked. I let Mr 45 speak for me. Since I no longer work as an LEO I trained myself not to shout stop, police. I really need to replace that impulse with something more useful.

Thanks for all the great feedback
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Old November 9, 2011, 08:04 AM   #39
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Quote: Mobuck
Everything sounded good until the part about the a--hole cops taking your pistol. Assuming you showed them a CCW permit, I see absolutely NO LEGAL REASON for them to take your gun.

I assume any time and in any state, that if I am involved in a shooting incident, in self defense, that they will take the weapon that I fire in the incident. I just figure that was part of standard operating procedure. And since I carry two on me they might take both of them, leaving me with only one gun till I get the two back. So now I have to find a S&W 696 revolver
if I can scrape up one somewhere. That will give me two more, while the
other two are being held, assuming I am not in jail. I have no doubt had
I experienced the attack he had in the parking lot, I would have shot at least one of them, and maybe all of them. May not be a legal reason to take the gun, but I bet they take it almost every time one is involved in a shooting.
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Old November 9, 2011, 09:10 AM   #40
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Since I no longer work as an LEO I trained myself not to shout stop, police. I really need to replace that impulse with something more useful.
Say cheese? Seriously, whatever you choose to yell out, you know the effect of verbaly confronting a person in an agressive and assertive manner in order to grasp control of a situation. Many times such verbal confrontations keep a situation from further escalating. Glad you are ok. Much better to resolve the altercation without firing any shots.
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