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Old November 4, 2011, 11:19 AM   #26
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I just watched that video. Very sad. Was it wagging it's tail out of submission at the end or reflex? Some dog owners need to step up to the plate with their training.

Food for thought:

If you are able to carry a 22 of a given size, depending on the gun you may be able to carry a larger caliber without anymore burden than the 22 would have been. That way you'd be covered for a wider variety of situations too.

That is unless you go for something like the NAA guardian (difficult to operate quickly) or one of the Taurus 22's. Or unless recoil on irritated joints is an issue.

Best of luck to you.

- Whoops, commented on the wrong video. I had followed a link to where 2 policemen had to put down a restrained dog with 2 shots, not the one where the dog approached the policeman as linked. It didn't look like the dog was charging since it was moving pretty slowly but I guess those dogs weren't where they were supposed to be!

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Old November 4, 2011, 11:54 AM   #27
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Sniping a coyote or loose dog trying to invade your chicken coup is one thing, but going against an animal that has had its fight response triggered and an adrenaline dump that goes with it might be a different story.
Yes there are hunters who kill big hogs with a 22LR, but they have the advantage of surprise and picking their target and taking careful aim on unsuspecting prey.

Totally different ballgame when an animal is charging at you. The other thing to keep in mind is the attack may totally take you by surprise. I had a dog charge me once at night and because of the visability I didn't see the dog until he was almost already on top of me. His owner called to him and he broke it off. He actually started his charge about a half block away - I just didn't see him.

You can get taken by surprise from behind or by animals coming out of bushes...

My opinion is you're going to need something to make up for how difficult shot placement is going to be - either a really powerful round or something that shoots multiple projectiles.
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Old November 4, 2011, 12:32 PM   #28
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Pit Bulls and coyotes have killed people.

Wouldn't want to try and stop a charging dog (in attack mode) with a 22 cal handgun.

Trail gun used to be a S&W 29, but switched that out to a mild mannered S&W 22-4 revolver (45 ACP).

Why take a chance with a 22 when a 45 will do, your life is worth it.

At a minimum...a 38 spl or 9mm.
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Old November 4, 2011, 12:51 PM   #29
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Go ahead and carry a 22 and if it doesn't stop the threat immediately you can always beat them with the gun!
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Old November 4, 2011, 07:41 PM   #30
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Grew up using a .22lr and never once felt like it was a toy or "not powerful enough" a large part of that is due to when that is the only thing you have you learn to hunt and base your stratagies around your weapon. Had more than a few encounters with coyots than i care to have had and killed alot of coyots with a 22lr and it dropped them grave yard dead and rarely took more than one shot. Also after the first one goes down the others rarely i mean rarely stick around. They are usualy more scared of you than you are of them. I have also killed a charging german shepard with a ruger mark 2, waited until he was about five yards away and shot two shots back to back at his head, one hit him square between the eyes and the other went into the middle of his shoulder blades...the head shot was a instant kill. I have shot charging wild hogs, snarling coyots, alligators that didnt like me playing on there mudslide at the river ( i was just a kid and didnt know what it was ) loads of snakes and lots of other things with a 22lr.

However i will say this. In my personal opinion a 22 is a great offensive caliber and if you are and only if you are a very good marksmen is it a good defensive caliber. The reason it isnt my first choice of a carry gun is that i think ( which i may be wrong ) is that if i am ever in a position where i need to pull my pistol then i am in a serious "oh crap" situation and may not have time for that perfect shot or i may not have the same steadiness as when facing a charging animal ( i am sure it is different when you are looking down a gun barrel ) to get that perfect shot off. so if all i can manage is a gut shot or something then i want the biggest and most powerful handgun i can get to do the job as best it can. just me though
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Old November 4, 2011, 08:25 PM   #31
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one of the important points to my mind is that in this sort of defensive situation, as well as in hunting, a second shot is not always going to be possible. Imagine if you will, a dog, large or small, coming at you rapidly, and you have maybe a second to decide. you have maybe one more second to draw and get ready to fire. At that point, charging bear, charging dog, cat, so forth, it may already be on top of you. You may have only one shot, and you can count on the fact that after your free shot, the animal will be engaging in high speed evasive maneuvers, hit or miss.

So, if the banger down the street has a really antisocial rottweiler that he has let out, and it's bearing down on you, I suggest that a 22, and the single round that you may be able to get into thethings body, is just not going to do it.

If you're someone who can pop out a 22 pistol and empty a magazine into a moving target in a few seconds, then yes, a .22 is good enough. Otherwise, you need something that is going to disable the thing with a single body shot.
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Old November 4, 2011, 09:18 PM   #32
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.22lr will do the job

I've got a ruger 22/45 5.5 inch barreled pistol. With Velocitors I'm shooten 40grains at around 1200 fps. 10 rounds and literally no recoil + a red dot for very easy aquisition.

I know a lot would say its just not enough to be sure... but I'd be very happy indeed to hold this type of power in my hands. I'm certain that just one of those slugs crackin against the noggen of a a pit or rott would cast immediate changes in it's intentions, if not killing it.

Yes I'd rather have a .357 mag etc. but the .22lr is no toy or joke.
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Old November 4, 2011, 09:45 PM   #33
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I don't expect it to have the firepower to stop a person,
Please understand and use your terms correctly.

A .22 has plenty of "firepower", which is defined as number of rounds.

"Power" is altogether different. A .357 Mag or a .45 acp has "power", defined as lb/ft delivered on the target.

To take the definitions to their logical/ludicrous conclusions, a 100-round BB gun has maximum "firepower", while a 105mm Howitzer with one shell has maximum "power".

No matter how you look at it, two entirely different things. I would not use a .22 to shoot anything larger than a paper target, or a squirrel.

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Old November 4, 2011, 09:47 PM   #34
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What ChadStrickland said. The .22lr is plenty of gun for most of your shooting chores IMHO.
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Old November 6, 2011, 02:51 AM   #35
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I would say a .22 would be a tie with a sharp stick.

It would work if you hit the pit bull straight on in the middle of the skull otherwise it would glance off where as a 45 would glance off too if not in direct line with skull but it would hit MUCH harder giving you a chance for a second shot.
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Old November 7, 2011, 10:22 AM   #36
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Agree with Mike1234 ... my issue with .22lr is the number of failures I've encountered with several handguns, including from Smith and Ruger ... I carry an NAA Pug on dog walks for animal defense; have never had a .22mag fail to fire ... ammo is more expensive than .22lr, but far less costly than 9mm, so you can practice a lot ... and there are .22mag shot cartridges available, I've never used one ...
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Old November 8, 2011, 03:23 PM   #37
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There are a lot of cases where a .22lr is as good as anything else but can't think of any time it's better. Personally, I think all the worry about critter attacks is so over blown it's not even funny. And that's coming from a guy that had to fight off 3 heelers at the same time with nothing but my feet and hands. Ten rounds of .22lr would of been nice, 6 from my .32H&R or .357 just as good or maybe even better. Personally I wouldn't worry to much about critters and a .22 is a fine woods bummin gun for that little extra when needed/wanted.

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Old November 8, 2011, 05:54 PM   #38
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I shot a rabid coyote in my front yard. Hit three times with a 22 lr. It ran off after I shot it. Game and fish recovered it and had it tested.

In Ar while fishing the Ouachita River and the associated swamps and Ox bow lakes we had a problem with cottonmouths dropping into the boat. The solution was a 45LC/410 single shot derringer. The 410 would kill the snake but not put a hole in the boat.

I still carry the derringer for snakes when working my property. I also carry slug loads, and a special reload loaded with 3 100 grain 30 cal plinkers per round.
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Old November 8, 2011, 07:10 PM   #39
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There is the ideal and there is the real world
The best gun for any specific job is....wells, the BEST the closer you get to that "ideal" the better for that job.
HOWEVER>>> any gun is better than no gun for any threat. I would not recommend going out and buying a 22 LR for defense against dogs, but I would not tell you it's worthless either.
If I KNEW I was going to have to defend myself or another person against a dog I'd be caring a 12 gauge autoloader loaded with #4 Buck Shot.
But we don't usually KNOW when we will need a gun.
I live in Wyoming near places where bad bears are not at all uncommon. I carry a 45 auto or a 357 ever day, but if I leave the ranch and the area, and I go up in the mountains where the bears live I switch to my 454 Casull. If I were to have my 454 in a town and got attacked by a pit bull I am sure I would use it, but I would have to be concerned with the fact that the 370 grain LBT bullet exits moose and Bison so it IS going to exit a Pit Bull. My 357 would be a better weapon, but I'd use what I had at the time. If I had a 22, I'd use that. If I had the 44 mag, I'd use that. If I could get to my 270 I'd use that

My point is that any gun is better then no gun. If you have one, use it until you get something better.
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Old November 14, 2011, 12:20 PM   #40
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Just out of curiousity, does anyone have a links to articles where any animal except a bear or moose continued to severly maul or kill a person in N.A. after being shot with any gun? After decades of reading hunting magazines, shooting magazines, watching the news and the internet I've never heard of such a case.

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Old November 14, 2011, 06:20 PM   #41
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I know of a hunting trip when i shot a feral boar hog I'n the shoulder with a 30-06 and when i went I'n to retrieve him I'n thick cover he jumped on me and was eating my a-" up when i shot him a second time I'n the face at point blank to end him. So yes, you go ahead and use a 22. If that's all i had i would too but I'n a scenario with a charging animal give me a 357 or a 40 cal
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Old November 16, 2011, 12:50 PM   #42
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Listen, Ive heard of certain neighbors who have bad dogs and for some reason these neighbors dont ever seem to keep their dogs put up in their own yards. (bad neighbors) And then you have to worry about walking up and down your own road or your children playing outside in their own yard. So for those bad neighbors, dont ask them about their dogs and if youre worried about shooting their dogs if they are threatning you but youre worried about being prosecuted (Iwould shoot them in a heartbeat and have, without being prosecuted. The Sheriff told me that even if the put a toenail in my yard to drop them). Anyway, Ive always heard that a can of dogfood and go to the store and get gopher bait (grainules) put a handful in dogfood. mix with a stick drive by at night and chunk can out and dogs love it. In 5 minutes problem solved and then some of these people on here who say youre bad and dont have to shoot a dog can no longer say that because you didnt shoot a dog. Atleast I heard the dogfood works in 5 minutes. Give or take a minute!
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Old November 16, 2011, 01:18 PM   #43
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Ive always heard that a can of dogfood and go to the store and get gopher bait (grainules) put a handful in dogfood. mix with a stick drive by at night and chunk can out and dogs love it.
More offensive than defensive. Pun intended.

Taking out an unfriendly animal on your own property is one thing, but this...ya know, I don't even know where to start, so lets just go ahead and let previous statement say it all...

Edit to maintain firearms relation: .22s fine for most nuisance applications
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Old November 16, 2011, 01:36 PM   #44
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I don't think I'd want to rely on a .22 for any kind of defense. I've never had a reliability issue from a .22 pistol... but .22 ammo is another story. Been way too many times that I pulled the trigger and just got a click... dud rounds.
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Old November 16, 2011, 01:36 PM   #45
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Interesting question...

About 3 years ago two of my (female) friends were out for an afternoon walk. Towards the end of their walk they were approached by a Pitbull. The dog attacked one of the females and had her pinned on the ground.

Luckily the other friend happens to be a competitive target shooter and they were just outside of her home. She immediately ran inside ad grabbed her pistol, a .22lr semi-auto. Upon returning, the attack was turning pretty vicious. The pit had ahold of a leg and was intent on keeping it.

At nearly point blank range, the friend with the gun fired 6 shots to the head of the pitbull. The first 5 shots didn't even phase the dog as it continued to attack. I remember her mentioning that she didn't think the rounds were penetrating the skull at all.

The 6th shot dropped the dog for good, but not before it did some significant damage to the girls leg and thigh area.

A few things I took from this situation... always carry your gun! They were lucky to be so close to home. A .22lr may well drop a good sized animal, but it also may not. Those "odds" are not good enough for me. There are plenty of good centerfire pistols that are small enough to carry ANYWHERE.

I'm not taking my chances with a .22 for SD/HD firearm. I'll save my .22lr's for plinking and squirrels
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Old November 16, 2011, 08:02 PM   #46
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You're killing "every" animal that eats your poisoned bait. What's the sense in that? IMHO, it's just senseless killing and downright lazy.

I wouldn't use a .22LR unless I didn't have a better choice, e.g. 9mm or .45 ACP, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so given the "proper" circumstances.
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Old November 16, 2011, 10:43 PM   #47
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Mike you should try when you're reading to understand what you read. I personally said I'd rather shoot a bad dog myself! And i said I heard that a can of laced dogwood also works wonders on bad dogs. Either way if you're a responsible dog owner you shouldn't have to worry bout this anyhow, right? And if you live down the road from me and you have mean dogs and can't keep or fail to keep em I'n your own yard and one night they end up dead and there's a empty dogwood can I'n your ditch then it's probably not me! But if my kids or myself is walking down the road and your mean dogs come out of your yard I'n a threatening manner then I'll shoot them while you watch!
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Old November 17, 2011, 05:33 AM   #48
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farmerboy... My reading comprehension is fine. Poisoned bait is indiscriminate killing of any animal that eats it.
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Old November 17, 2011, 07:52 AM   #49
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Not that anyone here said it was, but the .22lr cartridge isn't a toy or a kid's gun. It is not a 1st tier self defense weapon, but it can certainly kill when needed.
The problem is that it often doesn't kill or stop when needed because during an attack, people have a lot of trouble making the perfect shots necessary to make a kill or stop.
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Old November 17, 2011, 09:38 AM   #50
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.22s are great guns, and I carry them often, but I've seen enough squirrels require a followup shot that I'd be hesitant to use them for defense, unless recoil or concealment are extreme issues. .22 magnum is better, but centerfire is best. Rimfire will never be 99% reliable in all firearms. I've never had a dud centerfire that wasn't a reload (not mine) or the fault of the firearm.
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