The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 12, 2017, 02:59 PM   #1
rjinga
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2012
Location: Monroe, GA
Posts: 273
1000 Rounds of German Military Surplus Ammunition

I was scrolling a recent SGAmmo.com email notice and saw this ammunition offer. At $0.47 (and ½ cent) a round, it is over $0.10 a round cheaper than what I’ve been shooting; that’s an over $100.00 savings. So, after reading several favorable reviews, I decided to roll the dice. I hope to make it to the range this week and try it out.











__________________
"Yo homie. Is that my briefcase?"

Sig Sauer P229 SAS GEN 2 E2 9mm; PTR 91 GI Classic
rjinga is offline  
Old April 12, 2017, 03:29 PM   #2
Salmoneye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,927
Berdan primed is a deal breaker for me...

I take it you do not reload...
Salmoneye is offline  
Old April 12, 2017, 04:05 PM   #3
rjinga
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2012
Location: Monroe, GA
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmoneye
I take it you do not reload...
I do not.
__________________
"Yo homie. Is that my briefcase?"

Sig Sauer P229 SAS GEN 2 E2 9mm; PTR 91 GI Classic
rjinga is offline  
Old April 12, 2017, 04:23 PM   #4
sfwusc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2013
Posts: 148
If you don't reload then that is a good deal


If you do then you would pass.
sfwusc is offline  
Old April 12, 2017, 10:39 PM   #5
shuvelrider
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2011
Posts: 63
I was of the understanding that Berdan primer is the corrosive part of the cartridge, has the primer recipe been changed? Or do you still need to clean very well afterwards?
shuvelrider is offline  
Old April 12, 2017, 10:53 PM   #6
emcon5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 1999
Location: High Desert NV
Posts: 2,534
Quote:
I was of the understanding that Berdan primer is the corrosive part of the cartridge,
Berdan vs Boxer primed is unrelated to corrosive or not, it is the primer design.

Boxer primers have a single flash hole centered in the case head, and the anvil is part of the primer. Berdan primers generally have 2 flash holes, offset from the center-line, and the anvil is part of the case.

There are also odd-ball Berdan primed cases with a single flash hole, confused the hell out of me the first time I saw one, (on ~50s vintage Romanian surplus 8mm Mauser).
emcon5 is offline  
Old April 13, 2017, 11:50 AM   #7
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,654
The stuff has been argued over for at least 2 years on the assorted forums. Some guys think it's fine, others are afraid if it. Mostly due to the so-called 'sanitizing' of the head stamp.
It is alleged that the caliber ink stamp is required for sale in Germany. Even that gets argued about.
Bullet has a 'Cupro-Nickel' jackets that make the projectile magnetic. Problematic on some ranges.
Anyway, it's not about how cheap the stuff is. It's about how well it shoots out of your rifle.
You don't have to flush non-corrosive ammo(yes, it's the primer, but it doesn't matter if it's Boxer or Berdan) with hot water.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old April 13, 2017, 01:46 PM   #8
agtman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,379
Let us know how it shoots.
agtman is offline  
Old April 13, 2017, 02:15 PM   #9
Model12Win
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Posts: 4,099
I find it hard to believe that German milsurp would have ".308 WIN" written on it.

More likely, this is a contract overrun or made on the same production line as real German milsurp (Germsurp) ammunitions.
Model12Win is online now  
Old April 13, 2017, 03:32 PM   #10
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 16,619
Just an FYI about corrosive primers, its the residue from the priming compound, that is corrosive, or not.

Corrosive primers leave behind a chemical salt that attracts moisture, and holds it to the steel, creating rust. In the right conditions this can happen, literally, overnight. Fortunately the chemical salts (usually a potassium compound) are water soluble. The can be flushed away with water. Do that, then clean with the usual solvents and corrosive primers do no harm.

Also note that corrosive primer residue goes everywhere powder gas goes. This includes the bolt face, and any part of the action powder gas contacts when ejecting fired cases. And especially the gas system!! Don't just flush the bore and think you're good.

Non corrosive primers use a different chemical compound and do not leave the corrosive residue.

US military ammo changed to non-corrosive priming during the 50s. Many other countries have changed, since, but some still use corrosive priming.

If you assume that any foreign milsurp ammo that doesn't say "non corrosive" is corrosive and act accordingly when cleaning, you won't have trouble.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is online now  
Old April 14, 2017, 06:45 PM   #11
rjinga
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2012
Location: Monroe, GA
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by agtman
Let us know how it shoots.
So far, so good!


__________________
"Yo homie. Is that my briefcase?"

Sig Sauer P229 SAS GEN 2 E2 9mm; PTR 91 GI Classic
rjinga is offline  
Old April 14, 2017, 08:55 PM   #12
jersurf101
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 457
Looks good. Glad the PTR likes it. Nothing like having a 1000 rounds for your MBR.
jersurf101 is offline  
Old April 14, 2017, 10:26 PM   #13
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 23,842
The label clearly says non-corrosive, and I see no reason to doubt it. This is not old WWII military ammo, it is modern ammo and I see no reason for concern. A thin cupro-nickel plating of steel jacketed bullets is common in other countries solely to prevent rusting of the bullet. The U.S. does the same thing, but uses gilding metal instead cupro-nickel so the bullet looks the same as if the jacket were all gilding metal. It is hard to tell a gilding metal plated steel bullet from one with a solid gilding metal jacket. (Hint: use a magnet.)

I assume the removal of the headstamp was part of some "demilitarization" process or an attempt to conceal the source. Oddly, militaries often do such things, even though the other characteristics are all there and might as well be on a billboard.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old April 15, 2017, 08:39 AM   #14
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,058
What I call:
Let fly and brass lie ammo.

Enjoy their shooting rjinga.
__________________
"JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEMABLE."
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Old April 15, 2017, 09:44 AM   #15
mapsjanhere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 2,756
Germany has very strict rules about the sale of military material - they have to remove the NATO style markings and ink the 308 on it to even be able to sell it without a military export license.
__________________
I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.
mapsjanhere is offline  
Old April 15, 2017, 10:29 AM   #16
Model12Win
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Posts: 4,099
Looks like good PTR food. They're a German design, why not use German shells?
Model12Win is online now  
Old April 16, 2017, 04:49 PM   #17
jonnyc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,151
"the caliber ink stamp is required for sale in Germany"

This is absolutely true, 100%.

"Bullet has a 'Cupro-Nickel' jackets that make the projectile magnetic"

This is completely false. Just like the US use of gilding metal, bullets with a CN cladding can have a steel jacket or not.
__________________
2016 PA Cartridge Collector Show!!!
Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance
Details: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...75#post6228275
jonnyc is offline  
Old April 16, 2017, 05:37 PM   #18
10-96
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2005
Location: Tx Panhandle Territory
Posts: 3,514
I can't remember where I ran across it, but there's interesting reading on US experience with cupro-nickel jackets. What I read was that at Camp Perry and other matches in the early 20th century they found the CN jackets would leave stalactite type formations in the bores that were horrible to clean and would quickly degrade accuracy. Their solution at the time was to dip the projectiles into grease prior to loading. This supposedly kept the buildup down.

I don't doubt they did it, because there were photos attached to the article. But, dipping ammo in grease seems like such an odd thing to do by todays standards.
__________________
Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day)

I'm going to use the words "clip" and "Long Colt" every chance I get. It grinds my gears to see new members attacked when we all know dang good and well what's being refered to.

Last edited by 10-96; April 16, 2017 at 05:54 PM.
10-96 is offline  
Old April 17, 2017, 06:00 PM   #19
agtman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,379
Looks good!
agtman is offline  
Old April 20, 2017, 05:27 PM   #20
Reloadron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2016
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs
Posts: 710
Glad the new ammunition is working out well for you.

Ron
Reloadron is offline  
Old April 22, 2017, 03:07 PM   #21
SaxonPig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 24, 2006
Posts: 1,744
Around 1987 I bought 4,000 rounds of surplus 8x57 from a big nationwide dealer for $79. Ten years later I got 3,000 rounds of 7x57 for $99. In 1991 or so I bought surplus 7.62x51 for $79/1,000.

Yes, long time ago. But I gag when I see ammo in stores priced at $20-$30 for a box of 20. A buck a round was reserved for "elephant rifle" ammo when I was young. Now common '06 ammo will be that much and more and the big boomers like 458WM will run $4-$5 a pop. Staggering.
SaxonPig is offline  
Old April 22, 2017, 04:48 PM   #22
Reloadron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2016
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs
Posts: 710
Quote:
Around 1987 I bought 4,000 rounds of surplus 8x57 from a big nationwide dealer for $79. Ten years later I got 3,000 rounds of 7x57 for $99. In 1991 or so I bought surplus 7.62x51 for $79/1,000.

Yes, long time ago. But I gag when I see ammo in stores priced at $20-$30 for a box of 20. A buck a round was reserved for "elephant rifle" ammo when I was young. Now common '06 ammo will be that much and more and the big boomers like 458WM will run $4-$5 a pop. Staggering.
Yeah, ain't it the truth. A buck a bang for generic Winchester white box 7.62 / .308 Win. The better stuff gets up about $30 a box for 20 rounds. Last year I got a few good deals on GI brass and been making my own for the most part.

Ron
Reloadron is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2016 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08255 seconds with 9 queries