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Old September 7, 2011, 07:33 AM   #1
Eilig
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Need buy advice for a Wonder Nine

Greetings everyone,

As topic says I am on the look for a Wonder Nine. My only previous handgun experience was with a Walter GSP .22 I sold years ago so a 9mm is obviously a step up. I haven't browsed gun forums or read any gun magazines before so I am no expert but also not a complete tool.

I actually wanted to buy a 92 F/S since I am familiar with it from movies etc and it looks nice but a friend of mine who was in the service said it is a piece of ****.

Others guns I have on my list:

Glock 17 or 19
Sig Sauer 226
Browing Hi-Power
CZ 75
Walther P99

I didn't put any H&K on the list as I intend to get a H&K .45 at a later stage.

Quality, craftmanship, accuracy and ergonomics are important for me, price is secondary. I would also like to point out I have fairly small hands so my preference is towards something smaller and lighter.

Which one would you recommend me? I will also consider something that is not on the list like a US gun.

Thanks!
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Old September 7, 2011, 07:51 AM   #2
Leejack
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First, welcome to the forum.

To address your buddy's comment, I can assure you his opinion is in the minority.

This forum will yield you many opinions, as a matter of fact, your shopping list is right up the alley of many of our members.

A gun that meets your needs and desires is a personal choice, there are many good ones to choose from. Try out as many as you can and go with what you like, that's all that really matters.
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:05 AM   #3
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I think the Glock 19 is pretty legendary, I have medium hands/build and it fits me like a glove and is easy to conceal. Since you said price is secondary if it doesn't fit you there's a bunch of companies that will do grip reductions.
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:07 AM   #4
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Sig Sauer 226 or Walther P99 and leaning towards the P99 for small hands. Both pistols are good, just pick the one that fits you best.
============
In my opinion, DA/SA is nice for range and SD but for a strictly SD pistol, I lean towards DAO (or similar) triggers for its simplicity (no transition to learn).
My primary CC is a Walther P99 DA/SA which replaced a a Sig P6/P225. I am currently considering the P99c QA (DAO) or a Sig P239 DAK as replacement for a simpler and more comfortable CC but in I am in no hurry.
============
The Sig will have a milder felt recoil than the P99. If P99, i would stick with the 9mm. This is based on my Sig P6 vs Walther P99 experience.
============
I like the DA/SA on both Sig and Walther. Walther's maybe the best DA/SA on any DA/SA polymer pistol (better than HK USP, FNX, etc). it is better than some metal hammer fired DA/SA.
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:17 AM   #5
Fishbed77
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All of the handguns you've listed are excellent weapons with good reputations. Based on your criteria of quality, craftmanship, accuracy, ergonomics, and light weight, the most suitable of those listed would be the Walther P99. It is the lightest of those listed (being a polymer frame like the Glocks), and has the best ergonomics by far. It also comes with 3 backstrap sizes (the small size should fit your hands well). In terms of quality and craftsmanship, the reliability of the P99 is well-proven, and the craftsmanship and fit & finish of the P99 are vastly superior to the Glock (which is a great gun, but lets face it - it's downright crude compared to the Walther). The Walther also has a good reputation for accuracy.

Please note that the P99 is sold with two different trigger variants today - the P99AS with a DA/SA trigger (somewhat similar to the SIG 226 and CZ75), and the PPQ, which has a Glock-like trigger (but much smoother and more-refined than the Glock.) The PPQ replaced (and is a significant improvement over) the P99QA, which also had a Glock-like trigger (and which you will still find in stores).

On another note, I'm also going to second Leejack, and step a little futher by saying your buddy is full of hot air. The 92FS is a very fine semi-auto. However, it does not meet the criteria you've outlined (it is a larger and heavier gun than some of the other options).

Last edited by Fishbed77; September 7, 2011 at 08:26 AM.
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:19 AM   #6
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The Nine that inspires the most wonder of the Wonder Nines is the H&K P7M8.

But alas, it is no longer in production and the shooting world has snatched them up, few people part with theirs and the prices have sky-rocketed.

The best advice I can give you is first - take a class on basic pistol safety & marksmenship. From that class you should get a basic understanding of the different actions and safety designs - Single Action (SA), Double Action Only (DOA), DA/SA (the first trigger pull is double action and subsequent trigger pulls are single action), Manual Thumb Safety - for SA pistols, decockers - all of that. You'll also learn proper grip. Once you've learned proper grip, I recomend that you go handle and rent some guns and shoot them. You'll find that some don't fit you, some seem to fit naturally in your hand, others don't feel quite right. Some you will shoot better than others.

My opinions on some of the pistols you've listed.

I don't have small hands, but the Glock grip does give me a little bit of a problem - it doesn't fit in the web of my hand, the first joint of the thumb of my shooting hand end up in the line of recoil and that joint can get a little sore after a few hours of shooting.

The Beretta is not a POS. IMO it is a big pistol and IMO it does have fairly big grips, but it is a good quality pistol.

Another thing that you're going to have to figure out is what Manual Of Arms (MOA), you are comfortable with.

Some people find it quite natural to use their thumb to flick a safety down - this is how the BHP works, and 1911 style pistols. You can get a Beretta model that also has a safety that flicks down, but most of the Berettas have a slide mounted safety that flicks UP to take it off safe. Some people have trained with the slide mounted safeties that flick up and they have no problem with it.

You will have to handle them yourself and make your own decision.

I had a BHP and it was a solid high quality pistol that was very accurate and easy to shoot.

An alternative to the BHP is the CZ 75B SA - it's a single-action pistol that from all reports is a very high quality pistol that is comparable to the BHP but cheaper.


I never owned Sigs or Walthers - I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions on them.
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:26 AM   #7
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Here is a thread on the CZ75B SA and BHP:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...7&highlight=cz
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:43 AM   #8
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As Leejack said, welcome and you've come to the right place for opinions. But you know what they say about opinions, everyone has them. I am pretty much in the same spot as you. I have shot rifles and shot guns since I was old enough to hold them with my Dad's assistance and guidance. At 52 I decided I had waited too long so I bought my first handgun. I am stepping up from a .22 and trying to decide on a 9mm or .40. I have been reading and asking a lot of questions, but have now figured out that advice is important but it is going to come down to what I want and what I am comfortable with in my hands.
Find a range where you can shoot the handguns you want before you buy one. Spend a lot of time in the gunshops getting the feel of the gun. It's all up to your level of comfort with the gun now..

Have fun and be safe.
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:50 AM   #9
18DAI
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I disagree with your friend. The Beretta 92FS is a fine handgun. accurate and reliable with factory or MecGar magazines. A little big IMO for a full size 9mm but a great handgun in any case.

I'd also suggest a S&W 915. Well built, accurate and reliable. So underated it can often be found for $200 + change.

If polymer striker fired guns are your thing, try a Walther PPQ 9mm. A tack driver with the best trigger on a tupperware gun I've ever squeezed. Good luck with your search! Regards 18DAI.
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:50 AM   #10
MikeGunz
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I wouldnt say the 92 fs is a piece of ****.. The ones you will come across in the service were manufactured circa 1985, have 50,000 rds through them, beat to hell, with magazines made by the lowest bidder. I had a M9 for two deployments it had its issues but if I kept it and the mags clean it was alright. As for the a 9mm all those pistols you listed are good. Comes down to what you like, personally I like glocks...
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:56 AM   #11
aarondhgraham
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Definitely check out the CZ-75B,,,

Like you, I wanted one Wonder-Nine pistol,,,
I fired over 40 pistols on my "try-em-out" list,,,
I found the CZ to be the best pistol for me and my hand size.

All of the guns in your list are fine pistols,,,
The CZ-75B is simply my personal favorite of them,,,
And if you want a rimfire companion they also make the CZ-75B Kadet in .22 LR.



Whichever pistol you choose,,,
Have fun with it.

Aarond
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Old September 7, 2011, 09:31 AM   #12
kadima
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I would suggest the Beretta 92: efficient, reliable, accurate, but soffers from being not exactly friendly for people with small hands.

In this event the CZ75 is a wonderful weapon for ergonomics and precision. It's one of the best sellers in dynamic shooting, with reason!

K.
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Old September 7, 2011, 09:49 AM   #13
jrothWA
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No, experience with the 92 or Glock, but

go for the BHP which is the grandfather of the "wonder nines".

Any of the late 80's S&W 59 series is good.

Locate a range that rents and give what they have a try, it likely the BEST answer.

Single stack, either a Colt Combat Commander or a M39 series.
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Old September 7, 2011, 10:02 AM   #14
MarineCorpsAT
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I have a Glock 19 and just got an HK P30. I am so impressed with the P 30 that the Glock is now my wife's gun.

There are no better ergos on the market than the P30 it is the most comfortable gun I have ever held
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Old September 7, 2011, 10:29 AM   #15
Boats
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Were I starting over with 9mm pistol selection, I would beg, borrow or rent a lot more handguns than I did.

In retrospect, the first cut has to be single stack or double stack. If you are fine with getting your hand around a double stack you are in "wondernine" territory.

The second cut is full size against compact. I just don't do compact very well with my hand size, so I don't buy them.

The third cut would be hammer fired versus striker fired. I owned three different striker fired pistols, G20 on loan, a XD9, and an M&P9, before I finally realized I just didn't care for the firing system generally.

The fourth cut is metal framed versus polymer framed. I have both.

So I find myself owning full sized hammer fired double stack 9mms.

My favorites in no particular order are the Beretta 92, Beretta PX4, CZ-75, FNX, SIG P226, and SIG 2022.

If HK would put as much effort into developing their triggers as they do on the rest of the pistol, the P30 would be intriguing.
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Old September 7, 2011, 11:24 AM   #16
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The 92FS is no piece of ****. It's a fine, accurate, and reliable weapon. Opinions are subjective, but just to give you a hint, when we got them issued, and during our first trip to the range with them, guys that had never shot them were quite happy at how they felt. Big?, yeah, but it's a service gun. Concealment is not her environment.

To tell you the truth, I own a PX4 and although I like it a lot, I still don't shoot the PX4 as proficiently as I do with my 92FS. Perhaps it's just a matter of practice or the urgent need for a large backstrap that Beretta Spain is taking so long to deliver.

Add the PX4 to your list. It's a high-cap, sweet to shoot wondernine.
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Old September 7, 2011, 11:34 AM   #17
chadio
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Small hands? Think single stack

SIG Sauer P239 smaller for ease of CC

SIG Sauer P210 for target bliss

Based on your listed preference, be aware that the P239 and P210 are not lightweight pistols... but, when shooting, weight can be your friend. Do you want to carry it everyday? Do you want to marvel in it's lightness? Or... do you want to shoot?

A good friend of mine thinks that a beer has to be "light"" to be good. I beg to differ.

Last edited by chadio; September 7, 2011 at 11:40 AM.
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Old September 7, 2011, 11:34 AM   #18
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Add the HK P30 and Beretta 92FS to your list. Both are very fine handguns and you should check them out too, IMO.

Good luck Eilig.
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Old September 7, 2011, 12:15 PM   #19
C0untZer0
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What I can be happy with as far as recoil and accuracy differs from pistol to pistol.

If I get a Kahr or a Rohrbaugh - I'll be happy to create 6" shot groups rapid fire at 15 feet - because that's what I'd have those pistols for. And I wouldn't complain about the recoil or not fitting my hand well etc...

On the other hand, i expect to be able to shoot a Glock 17L much much better than that as far as accuracy.

I should have asked OP "what do you want this pistol for - nightstand, CCW, range fun, what?"
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Old September 7, 2011, 12:46 PM   #20
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lol, your "friend" is an idiot...

carry on 1 post guy..
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Old September 7, 2011, 02:26 PM   #21
loose_holster_dan
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your list is dead on with the exception of the last one.

you really can't go wrong with the rest of them. i own at least one of each
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Old September 7, 2011, 03:45 PM   #22
Eilig
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wow, so much feedback in one day. Thank you all.

After reading several of your posts I will take a fresh look on the 92 f/s.

My primary use will be range fun. A CCW permit is really hard to get in the country where I live and at this point I do not have a need for that, but who knows what the future will bring with a sh1tty economy, social unrest and so on.

Also, where I live it is not possible to rent any firearms so I have rely on you guys...
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Old September 7, 2011, 03:52 PM   #23
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The Glock 19 has a smaller grip that fits the hand-size of more people. I won't claim the Glock 19 is a better weapon than the Beretta 92, but most people will find the 19 more comfortable and ergonomic which usually means they shoot it better.

John
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Old September 7, 2011, 04:08 PM   #24
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They're all respected and reliable but, especially since carrying is not a primary factor, my vote is for the CZ75 or BHP on superior aesthetics.
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Old September 7, 2011, 04:12 PM   #25
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Welcome to the forum.

I'd like to toss another pistol in the mix. I like the Springfield XDm. Mine had a good trigger out of the box. Three interchangable backstraps for different hand sizes. High capacity at 19+1. It just feels right and points well for me. Has shot everything I put in it without a problem. It can be field stripped for cleaning in an unhurried 5 seconds. Worth a look if you are thinking about a poly, striker fired pistol.
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