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Old August 29, 2011, 10:07 AM   #26
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he "ringed" himself on the scope. He learned I wasn't kidding when I said "she kicks a bit..."
Ringing has nothing to do with recoil. Its caused by improper eye relief and positition.
Kraig Stuart
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
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Old August 29, 2011, 10:26 AM   #27
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I think Kraigwy gives some sound advise. There are some big differences between toting that sniper rifle around a range or out yote hunting and packing for a day or two or three in the back country looking for an Elk or Deer.

I would look at either the Marlin(what I bought) or Savage, and some of the other inexpensive rifles that are chambered for a common round like 308 ( what i bought) 30/06 270 7mm08 or similar. I bet at least 70% of all trucks in America have either an unfired or fired 30/06 case in a door pocket or under the seat right now.

Like others have suggested. If you are going to be about 100 yarder then I don't thin there is any thing wrong with a 30-30. In fact I would not be surprised if it has killed more North American big game than all others combined.

Simple and easy to use is the name of the game when hunting.
* (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! *

Nope, the old nag's still dead .
(Capt Charlie)
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Old August 29, 2011, 10:43 AM   #28
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True on "ringing." He was using MY rifle, and not his. I think he was unwilling to refocus the scope to his eyes (bad manners on another man's rifle) when he got tagged.

Also, very true on 30-30. I think lever actions in 30-30 are some of the best 'brush rifles' around. The form must fit the function for results to follow. I have a lever action in the same caliber (.41 Mag) as my pistols. They are my horseback trio.
Trigger control: The skillful manipulation of the trigger, which causes the weapon to fire, while maintaining sight alignment and sight picture.
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Old September 3, 2011, 04:18 PM   #29
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An awful lot of good rack-grade hunting rifles will do fine for this type of shooting.
Definitely. Yesterday I took the '06 M98 my father built to the range. Placed my usual game of choice (clay pigeons) at 100, 200 and 300 yds. Sat down, set the elevation up 2 for 200, supported the fore end and tucked the stock into the shoulder. Dead pigeon at 200. Then another. Dialed it up 3 more for 300yds, dead pigeon. Repeat. Repeat. Drop it down 5 for 100yds. Dead pigeon. I successfully defended the homeland from the evil orange invaders.

This is with a wooden stocked, re-barreled, surplus military action that was built some time in the 50's. The difference between now and then is that the action is well bedded, the barrel is floated and a 10x mil-dot scope with target turrets has been added. Oh, and the load has been tuned and the rifle calibrated with it as a system. It weighs as much as my Garand does, light for some, too heavy for me to lug around chasing deer.

There are 2 points I'm trying to make here. First is you can get a precision shooting system without buying a specialized LE rifle system. Second is that given the accuracy requirements to take deer under 200 yds, a heavy rifle with high magnification target optics is not needed. If I was going to stalk hunt deer at ranges of 200 yds or less, a nice light carbine in a reasonable caliber is what I'd carry with a fixed 4x scope, less to fiddle with. I have a Mannlicher in 6.5 that would be perfect.
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Old September 7, 2011, 04:01 PM   #30
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Like a lot of folks on this forum,I have rifles like some folks have golf clubs.I have a Win M-70 Laredo,7mm Rem mag,with a Leu 4.5-14 M-1 Longrange Mildot on it.I have fun with it,but I put it together as a long range coyote rifle.The only big game use it has seen is ending the suffering of an antelope someone else hit badly.
For most of my hunting,I have a 257 Ackley on a Mexican Mauser,22 in Douglas fwt bbl,in a Garrett Accra-lite stock.It has a 6x42 Leupold on it,and ,scope and all,it weighs 7 lbs.I zero it at 300 yds,and,generally,I try to limit my shots to 300 yds.I can hit prairie dogs at 300,so a deer or antelope is going to be well hit.One key,I do not have a problem with not shooting.If I am not confident of a good hit,wind,range,dancing crosshairs,I don't shoot.I do not regret not shooting.
At resonable ranges,like inside 300 yds or so,if you are proficient in the basics of marksmanship,and your tool is setup right,a common,light big game rifle will deliver a good,clean kill.The ballistics of the cartridge will help manage wind and trajectory.
Now,I am going to make a critical point.There is far more to what Zak Smith can do than equiptment.Buying a big,expensive,heavy long range rig will not give you Zak's skills and experience.The equiptment does not read wind and mirage.As ranges get out where the heavy barreled tactical rifles come into their own,the variables like wind and mirage and trajectory knowledge and precise ranging become far more critical than the rifle itself.Its the shooter that gets the job done.Some folks,like Zak(I do not know Zak,but I do not doubt his abilities)have the skills to use the tools he is carrying.But I could go spend $3000 on mountaineering equiptment,ar a Stradevaius Violin,and that does not mean I can show up at Annapurna or Carnegie Hall and get her done.
In my experience,it seems to me the die hard hunters are not so equiptment oriented.They know the terrain,they know the critter,and they are quiet,stealthy,and they show up at the right place/time.They get all quivery and excited like a bird dog sneaking a hundred yards closer.They do not really care if their rifle is a Savage 99 in .300 Savage,or dads old Springfield 30-06.Heck,I was mentored some by a man who has some of the same SE Asia military sniper experience as Kraigwy.He is doing all his hunting with a cloned from parts Remington Rolling Block Navy Carbine in 50-70 with black powder.
One more thing,consider the 95% of the time shot,vs the 5% of the time shot. Some how,we envision the long shot and gear up for it,when most of our shots are more modest.It is cheaper,lighter,and easier to gear up for the 95% 300 yd and less shot.
That rifle will always be useful.Later,as your skills develop,you can always buy the longbow if and when you can put it to work.
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Old September 7, 2011, 06:28 PM   #31
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In my experience,it seems to me the die hard hunters are not so equipment oriented
Most hunters are actually snipers. I have not killed a head of large game at over 50 yards in about 20 years. I have a .38-55 rifle and have killed several animals with a Colt's Single Action Army. I hope to take a Cougar with my pistol this year. I don't belittle those that snipe because it is an art. I'd just rather get out there with'm if you know what I mean.
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Old September 8, 2011, 01:54 AM   #32
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To The OP

Touch,feel and squeeze as many rifles as you can before you make your decision and spend your money."In the end,do it YOUR way.Learn!You can buy/sell/trade later.Your ideas are worthy of respect.
Some folks like a German Shorthair,some like a Brittany.(Old,semi-ground mobile guys like me like a close working French Brittany,corners and plumb bottoms. Guys who will sprint 150 yds to a dog on point like shorthairs.)
Point is,we do shooting and guns for fun,mostly.Explore your ideas with confidence.WAY too many folks make their firearms choices based on some "approval"criteria.Doggone,guns are one place in life we ought to explore our preferences.You can prefer Coors,Bud,Fat Tire or Guiness,Blondes,Brunttes,Redheads,Medium rare,over easy.
My brother decided his rifle...his one serious rifle for everything,would be an AR-10-T.That is a bull bbl AR 308.He later bought a .300 Rem SAUM top end for it.He took to the tech stuff like a duck to water,and I am here to tell you,he can hit things with that rifle.He wore out the original Badger bbl and just put a Krieger on it.I have seen him hump that pig up into the Flat Tops wilderness in Colorado,near 9000 ft,on foot with me,with a long week's worth of gear,in a pack,on our backs.(first night we were hit with a blue lightning,zip,crash thunder/blizzard all night long and woke up to over the knees snow!
I offer him my lightweight bolt guns,he just grins,says "This is my rifle"

You just get good enough with it to kill clean,with respect for the critter you are shooting.Make it short,quick,clean...and do it with whatever tool trips your trigger.If you choose an 11 lb .308 ..thats up to you.If you choose a 6.75 lb 7-08...I do not think a game animal at 300 yds can tell the difference.
But,between you and me,I think if we handed Kraigwy,or Zak,a 30-40 Krag,or an SMLE in .303 British,let them shoot a couple boxes of ammo to get familiar with that rifle,they could get done whatever needs doing.A long way off.
As a gentleman who repiled suggested,an old Marlin in 38-55 will feed you fine.
We have a member here,HunterGirl...I get the idea she knows a thing or two about hunting elk,and I got the impression she wants a good tool for a gun,but it's sort of the hammer she pounds nails with.
Have fun!
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Old September 8, 2011, 10:15 AM   #33
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There are two types of people, shooters and hunters. Shooters can put a bullet into a 1" group at 300 yards. Hunters position themself to the game in such a way that a 6" group is good enough. My cousin has the same Savage 99 his Dad used many moons ago, iron sights, and I don't know if he can even see the sights with his eyes, the only time he ever pulls a trigger is when there is something to kill on the other end, but damn, does he kill deer, and has some nice trophies hanging on the wall as a result.
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