The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 18, 2011, 12:33 PM   #1
Junior member
Join Date: April 21, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,555
The hypotheticals of a president carrying in DC

Moderators Warning: Before posting, read post #8 first.

From the article:

I think it was interesting how the media writes about hangun issues in general :

He also packs a concealed .380 Ruger loaded with deadly hollow-point bullets, fully equipped with a laser-sight for precise killing. (What, you don't?)

And also... seeing a photo of Rick Perry fring a pistol in the air makes me cringe.
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 01:33 PM   #2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 4,039
When you have whole squads of people tasked to the protection of your person, there isn't much reason to carry. If the usual Secret Service team doesn't save your bacon (and they're far better trained and alert than any citizen could ever hope to be), then I'm not sure the holdout LCP is going to be what keeps you from passing through the veil and joining the choir immortal.

So it's really kind of a silly argument... the hand wringers are beside themselves at the thought of a President carrying his own firearm when that dude with the briefcase has codes and plans for total nuclear war and that black Suburban two cars down has a collection of gear that would make our collective jaws drop. One pocket gun more or less is irrelevant.

As for the applicable laws, there's almost certainly something that would allow it.
Technosavant is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 01:43 PM   #3
Senior Member
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Posts: 1,755
"We Texans like our guns," Perry writes in his book, Fed Up!. "We don't like meddlesome statists who want to infringe on our right to keep and bear them."

I find it interesting that he uses an argument against "Statism" that is seemingly grounded by the fact that "Texans(a STATE and views of a STATE) like our guns" against other locales which wish to impose their own views. Being pro-gun then waving one around in the air as such just re-enforces the gun toting yahoo kind of stereotypes.

Also, I guess FMJs just tickle and aren't deadly. and I'm pretty sure anyone who's seen a laser sight being used outside of a movie, has noticed a laser sighted weapon is still only as precise as the person aiming it, it's not a magic thing that turns everyone who uses one into Billy Bada**.
sigcurious is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 01:43 PM   #4
Junior member
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
That may be true but if I was the president I dang sure would be packing. Why not? The team of suits? That has nothing to do with why pack. I'm not saying that Reagan could have reacted in more time either just that Yes, I'm the President and that is my gun.

Laws? No DC cop would dare try to penetrate the perimeter of suits.
Edward429451 is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 01:54 PM   #5
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,066
The president could make himself a U.S. Marshall and pack a gun just like any LEO.

However, this line in the article is what really hurts:

you can imagine how the Secret Service might react if the president wanted to pack a glock.
Emphasis mine. And it wasn’t even capitalized.
No people should have to fear the will of their government; all governments should have to fear the will of their people.
ClayInTx is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 02:04 PM   #6
Senior Member
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,167
And also... seeing a photo of Rick Perry fring a pistol in the air makes me cringe.
Are we sure that's a real gun loaded with live ammo? Firing blanks into the air, I would think, is perfectly safe.
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 02:07 PM   #7
Old Grump
Member in memoriam
Join Date: April 9, 2009
Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in
Posts: 3,144
The president would have to "persuade the court that carrying the gun was part of his official duties," said Eric M. Freedman, professor of constitutional law at Hofstra University. That wouldn't necessarily be easy, given that the president is already surrounded by a heavily armed team of Secret Service personnel, but then again, White House lawyers are notorious for legal arguments to justify presidential power.
No, no, and double no. He would not have to convince anybody that carrying a gun is part of his official duties unless he joins up with a police task force or a military unit going after bad people. He has a second amendment right to carry and that right shall not be infringed. Not for him, you, me or anybody not disqualified from carrying a weapon due to a felony record or mental defect. What a bonehead statement from a constitutional scholar.
Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.
--Daniel Webster--
Old Grump is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 02:07 PM   #8
Al Norris
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,524
If we want to explore the legal ramifications of A President packing heat, then we can explore them.

If however it becomes part of the (starting) Presidential Election cycle, the thread will disappear. Sorry, there will be no replay of the last cycle that brought down the Legal & Political discussion forum.
Al Norris is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 02:07 PM   #9
Senior Member
Join Date: July 29, 2010
Location: The ATL (OTP)
Posts: 3,546
The president could make himself a U.S. Marshall
Well, I guess you could after all Nixon made Elvis a Federal Agent and things went well for the two of them.
A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
- Milton Friedman
BarryLee is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 02:42 PM   #10
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 9,694
Originally Posted by sigcurious
"We Texans like our guns," Perry writes in his book, Fed Up!. "We don't like meddlesome statists who want to infringe on our right to keep and bear them."
Yeah - Texas doesn't need any outside help to infringe on the RKBA, they do a pretty fine job on their own.

For those who don't know, Texas has a requirement for a CCW permit that includes passing a course of fire that's not "difficult," but is arguably by far the most stringent of any of the states. And you have to requalify every time you renew, not once when you first get your permit. When I first became aware of the term (and concept) of "printing" when practicing concealed carry, it was invariably Texans who were paranoid about being arrested for "printing."

I was born in Texas ... which gives me a right (IMHO) to complain about Texas law. For any Texas politician to hold out Texas as a shining example of the RKBA is a sick joke. Texas is the state that I would most expect to have Constitutional carry -- but I doubt Texas will see it in my lifetime.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 02:55 PM   #11
Dr. Strangelove
Senior Member
Join Date: August 1, 2008
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 1,420
Regular laws don't apply around the president anyway, the secret service can do pretty much anything it wants in the name of "national security", why would it be a problem unless the SS didn't want it?
Just remember, when you pull the trigger, the bullets come out going very, very fast. So make sure to keep the weapon pointing away from you.
Dr. Strangelove is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 03:04 PM   #12
Join Date: August 13, 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 30
The Secret Service would probably be afraid POTUS would try to help them in a situation. Can you say "Friendly Fire", boys and girls?

AlabamaFamilyMan is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 03:28 PM   #13
Evan Thomas
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 5,098
No... I can't imagine that the Secret Service would think this was a good idea.

What would be nice, though, would be to see Gov. Perry, or any other candidate for that matter, make much of the fact that under current law, even as President, as a civilian and a D.C. resident, he (or she ) wouldn't be allowed to carry a gun -- it seems to me that the value to the gun rights movement of such a stance would be far greater than any possible benefit a President would derive from declaring himself (yet again ) above the law and entitled to carry one "because he's the President and he says so."

A little solidarity might go a long way toward actually fixing the current D.C. mess, for the benefit of everyone who lives there...
Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry.
Evan Thomas is offline  
Old August 18, 2011, 03:43 PM   #14
Glenn E. Meyer
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 18,606
Nah, this is going political and the OP should have know that. Esp. with the big red letters - give me a break.

NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
Being an Academic Shooter
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:18 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2016 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent:
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.06995 seconds with 7 queries