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Old November 27, 1999, 02:07 PM   #1
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Indulge me here...

A few weeks ago I got some after-market goodies for my Glock 19 from Glockworks, and I finally gave them a run-through.

The parts I ordered were:
<LI>Glockworks stainless steel non-captured guide rod
<LI>Wolff 20lb recoil spring
<LI>Wolff standard weight trigger spring
<LI>Glockworks 3.5lb connector
<LI>Glock OEM extended slide stop, and mag catch

I bought the gun used, and didn't realize it had an 11lb NY2 trigger spring it. Whaddaya want from me? I ain't never had no handgun before! What do I know from trigger pull??? With the replacement spring and connector the pull is about 4lbs, I think. Positively breathy...

The heavier recoil spring is a big plus, too, and I only launched it across the room once (into a sleeping dog...sorry Minnie!) I wanted to mix and match springs to loads to get comparable felt recoil between target loads and business loads.

The extended slide stop is a great modification. It's not obtrusive at all, and I can actually release the slide without shifting my grip. (yes, I use the slide stop and a slide release... sue me.)

The extended mag catch is a factory Glock part, it just sticks out a little more than the stock part. I saw plenty of mag catches that had increased surface areas protruding toward the rear of the gun, but my grip places the tip of my thumb right behind the catch, so I went with the OEM part. It sucks. The mag popped loose twice in the holster, and I put the stock part back in after 5 minutes.

So, off to the backyard I went, with some 115 gr. UMC and Winchester (the stuff in the white box), and some CorBon in 115 gr. and 125 gr. I couldn't really feel much difference in recoil between the two CorBon weights, the 125 felt a little more solid, maybe. I'm too new at this to tell. But the Winchester is definitely loaded a little hotter than the UMC. That's good for me, because it's $1 cheaper, too.

I matched the Winchester with the stock recoil spring, and the CorBon with the 20lb Wolff spring with favorable results. The CB is still noticeably kickier, but it's close enough for now. Even the UMC cycled flawlessly with the heavy spring, and so gently, that I'm thinking of going to 22lbs for T&E with the CB. Push The Envelope...

I shot mostly for accuracy (if you can call it that), and I'm gettin' there. But my laziness came through in the way of flinching, low and left. I'll have to cut my groups from 5 shots down to 3, to eliminate those pesky fliers. They count, dammit!

But accuracy isn't everything! You also have to have fun with the ol' double taps and Mozambiques. Here's where the heavier recoil spring really makes the difference. With the 20lb spring, I was pretty much on target at 5 and 7 yards. With the stock spring, the innocent by-standers were dropping like flies (the baby and the blind man were especially heart-breaking).

I alternated between my G19 hi-cap that came with the gun and one of two used G17 hi-caps that I recently bought. So far, so good.

So now I'm beginning to think this "Glock Perfection" thing may be little more than a crafty advertising gimmick... Glock Perfectability is more like it.

Oh yeah, there were no malfunctions of any kind. Of course.

[This message has been edited by boing (edited November 27, 1999).]
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Old November 27, 1999, 06:02 PM   #2
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Boing, that low-and-left thing seems to be an undocumented feature of Glocks; my G20 does the same thing for everyone who shoots it. It groups nicely, though.

I have the same guide rod and spring; ain't that thing a major PITA? Once it sets, it's easier to deal with, but that first install is evil. It makes my full-house 10mm stuff feel like a .380.

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Old November 27, 1999, 06:47 PM   #3
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Isn't low and to the left indicative of pulling the trigger instead of squeezing it?
(Pardon the spelling)

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Old November 27, 1999, 08:53 PM   #4
Edmund Rowe
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Try dry firing (with a handgun you checked for unloaded status 3, 4, 5, 10 times) at a safe backstop and see if the sights shudder as the trigger breaks.

If so, there's something wrong with your shooting technique. Not being there, I can't say for sure what is making the hits go low left. You can work on technique by dry-firing and save a lot of money in the process.

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Old November 27, 1999, 09:07 PM   #5
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In my case at least, low/left is probably a combination of flinch and trigger yanking. Usually the first shot is good, then I get all discombobulated and blow the next one or two, then get it back together again.

Next trip out, I'm going to try a run of dry firing between each group, and see if I can't get myself to concentrate without getting tensed up.
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Old November 29, 1999, 01:29 AM   #6
George Hill
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There may be a couple reasons why your shooting Low and Left. Trigger Control may be it.
The cheapest and easiest ways to check this are:
1. Sand Bags. I am talking Bench that bad boy. Use sand bags or something to get a good solid supported position and concentrate on pulling a smooth stroke.


2. Buddy System. Let your shooting buddy print it out. Everyone shoots differently. The gun may shoot high and right for him. or what ever. If it shoots different - you may assume its the tigger pullers. If its the same. Its the gun.

If it turns out to be the gun - try a different box of ammo... Different loading - weight and charge. If its shooting the same low and left - You now know it aint the shooter - it aint the ammo selection - so it must be the gun. If a simple sight adjustment aint a fix - then you need to take that Iron in for a check up.

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Old November 29, 1999, 10:10 AM   #7
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Low and left shooting a lot of times comes from milking the grip... squeezing the fingers of the gun hand as well as the trigger. It's usually an attempt to mitigate recoil, but the shots print low and left.

You have to learn to hold the gun solidly with your hand and pull the trigger straight back using only your trigger finger. Then your shots should print to point of aim.

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Old November 30, 1999, 12:54 AM   #8
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Hey guys don't laugh...

The way I practice dry firing to determine if my technique is faulty with a particular weapon is to place a dime on the front sight and attempt to squeeze the trigger without knocking the dime off the front sight. Works for me.

"peace, love, joy, and happiness..."

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Old November 30, 1999, 12:48 PM   #9
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I also shot low and to the left this problem arised when I went from a 45 reuger to a 9mm HK usp last time I was at the range I took out a glock 17 and glock 19 ( I just had to see what all the hoopla was about)and i had solved the shooting low problem but I still shoot to the left but it is improving.

What did I do to improve it. I played video game shooters. The gun has no kick bak so it is dry fireing and what I noticed was that when I pulled the trigger the gun would move to the side. Problem was I was squeezeing with my entire hand and not just pulling the trigger. Also I notted that I wasn't pulling the trigger straight back. Now I shoot on the same horizon that I fire on and I think my stance has something to do with the reason why am shooting to the left as three out of five group at what I aim at but usually one to two rounds will veer to the left but not low to the left
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Old December 1, 1999, 06:03 PM   #10
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I do the dime trick also.
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Old December 2, 1999, 02:28 AM   #11
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Now, is that balancing the dime on the sight post itself, or just putting it on the top of the slide behind the sight? 'Cause if I'm going to put the dime on the sight, I'll have to quit smoking.
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Old December 5, 1999, 10:36 AM   #12
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I was a low and lefter. I was using the pad of my finger to pull the trigger. I was instructed to wrap my finger around the trigger (use crease of first joint). Gun shot to point of aim. Glockfinger the instructor calls it...
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Old December 10, 1999, 04:35 PM   #13
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My experience, limited as it is, is that low is flinching and left is trigger pull. Funny thing-when I stopped wrapping my finger around the trigger and switched to using the pad of my finger, the trigger pull problem went away.
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Old December 13, 1999, 01:23 PM   #14
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Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.

Low left means flinching and anticipating recoil. Left or right means you're not pulling the trigger straight back.


The Seattle Shooter

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Old December 17, 1999, 06:50 PM   #15
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When I pull the trigger I don't wrap my finger around the trigger. Instead, as I pull the trigger I straighten out my finger while pulling the trigger. When the trigger reaches it's rearmost travel my finger from tip to the second joint are in a straight line. I can dry fire my P99 one handed in double action mode without the sights moving. This technique has helped my shooting immensely.
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Old December 19, 1999, 08:47 PM   #16
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The size of your hand and more specifically the length of your fingers determine contact point of trigger and finger.

Three cheers for dry firing. It really helps.
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Old December 20, 1999, 04:01 PM   #17
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Thanks for the dime trick, guys. I did it for a week, then took my 20 and 26 to the range on Saturday, and shot standing at 20 feet. Results:

First shot with the 20 took out the center of the X. Next 5 shots went through the rest of the X. Next 44 shots removed the complete X-ring, and edged into the 10.

The 26 was a bit more ragged, possibly due to fatigue, possibly due to the ghost-ring rear sight, possibly due to a 25-mph crosswind. 50 shots, X-ring gone, a few more in the 10-ring than I got with the 20. I'm still happy with it.

I then did Mozambique with the 26, 50 shots, tac-reloads (2+1, change mag, repeat until both mags are dry). Holy wowsers. Didn't know I could shoot that good.

I'm gonna use the dime trick at my next pistol class (next month). Wish I'd known about it sooner.

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Old December 21, 1999, 11:45 AM   #18
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Once you start modifying any gun, you change the designers and engineer's intentions.

Take it back to stock and shoot 1,000 rounds and then talk to us.

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If it can't shoot jacketed rad turds powered by rodent farts, I ain't gonna shoot it!

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