The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Lock and Load: Live Fire Exercises

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 17, 1999, 06:31 PM   #1
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Alachua, FL., USA
Posts: 236
Me and some buddies are going to the LF-1 course anyone have an opinion about Ayoob's block of instruction?

Jon in FL.
CrociJA is offline  
Old November 17, 1999, 09:44 PM   #2
Glenn E. Meyer
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 18,894
It is well worth it. Ayoob is a fascinating
character. My opinion:

1. The legal info is invaluable as well
as the psychological, sociological
and cultural analyses of lethal force

2. Don't know your level of shooting skill
but I'm fairly experienced and found
his drills useful.

3. If you cringe and turn red at earthy
language and vulgarity - you will need
a chill pill. Ayoob is living locker

4. The course is hard work. It is not just
sitting there and shooting some. You
exert yourself.

Bottom line - I regard it as crucial part of
my education. Hearing it is different from
reading the books. Could a few things
be tweaked - sure but I loved it.

Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old November 17, 1999, 10:52 PM   #3
Jeff Thomas
Senior Member
Join Date: December 9, 1998
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,753
Glenn hit it on the head, although I only had an abbreviated, classroom-only, 2 day course with Massad. But, I found him to be a fascinating character, and very inspiring.

Yes, his language is salty ... damn salty. By the same token, he drills into you the massive responsibility we all take on when we choose to arm ourselves with deadly force. And, if there was an iota of indecision on your part about why you take that responsibility, Massad will remove all indecision.

He talks about the 'archetype of the beast' attacking innocents, including your children. And, he asks the hard questions about what the hell are you going to do about such a situation? He draws an analogy between sheepdogs and ccw holders - and a comparison between sheepdogs and wolves. As in, good people with guns are like sheepdogs - the sheep are frightened of them because they have claws and teeth like the wolf, but they use those tools to destroy the wolf that would eat the sheep.

Perhaps all of this sounds corny on the 'net. And, lurkers may roll their eyes and wonder about vigilantism and such. But, I assure you, in class with Ayoob he drives these points home with a vengeance. There is no vigilantism to it - simply good people (including LEO's and citizens) protecting themselves and other innocents. And, understanding why, how and when they can employ lethal force.

I look forward to seeing Massad again someday for his entire class.

Check him out at

Note also that he is a clear and strong supporter of the RKBA. He was pilloried recently when he wrote a commentary for the WSJ re: allowing teachers to have CCW's and carry at school. He is a brave and intelligent man who is willing to speak his mind clearly and openly. IMHO, we are fortunate to have Mr. Ayoob among us.

Enjoy your class, and take lots of notes.
Jeff Thomas is offline  
Old November 18, 1999, 12:08 AM   #4
Senior Member
Join Date: November 18, 1998
Location: Virginia
Posts: 412
bring a good-sized notepad and reliable writing implements; to get the most from LFI-1, you'll need to take a lot of notes.

Ivanhoe is offline  
Old November 18, 1999, 05:29 AM   #5
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
A small tape recorder is also great to have - as some times you may have your hands full and not able to write notes down.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud

George Hill is offline  
Old November 18, 1999, 08:04 PM   #6
Senior Member
Join Date: December 17, 1998
Posts: 479
Be sure to always ask permission before turning on a tape recorder during a lecture of any kind, of course. Usually it will be OK, but some instructors have been burned that way.
Mort is offline  
Old November 19, 1999, 03:42 PM   #7
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Alachua, FL., USA
Posts: 236
O.K. Thanks for the info. A tape recorder or pen/pad it is than! As for my shooting skill I consider myself a "novice" with a pistol. One of the reasons why my buddies and I decided to go! Even though I was an 11B and a Stinger, the Army's block of instruction with the pistol leaves a lot to be desired (and that was when they still used .45's)!

Jon in FL.
CrociJA is offline  
Old November 20, 1999, 01:24 AM   #8
Jeff Thomas
Senior Member
Join Date: December 9, 1998
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,753
Jon, don't depend on the tape recorder - my memory could be off, but I recalled that Ayoob didn't allow those in class. Hedge, and bring a pen / pencil and plenty of paper.

Have fun. You'll be thinking about the class for at least days afterwards.
Jeff Thomas is offline  
Old November 20, 1999, 11:27 PM   #9
Glenn E. Meyer
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 18,894
You know it is interesting about
the personalities of these guys.
I also found Greg Hamilton to
be right up there also. Haven't
done the Clint Smith show yet
but when you get done you realize
the rather awesome road you choose
when you decided that you can face the

While I strongly support the RKBA in
a way I wish all folks could hear this
kind of presentation.

I also found that some of the TX school
instructors like Karl Rehn, Steve Moses
and Bill Slater tell it like it is
in a way that makes you really think.

That's way so much gun chat is BS - folks
haven't really burned the brain calories
dealing with this material.

Learn, Grasshopper
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old November 25, 1999, 09:00 PM   #10
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: colo
Posts: 378
no you cannot tape his lecture class. 2nd & 3rd what everyone above has posted. i wrote 14 pages of notes while he was talking, and while the video was rolling. he use's video for teaching so that each and everyone of his lecture's is verbatim the same ( legal sutff) go enjoy and learn. i know i did, and i definately have had my eye's & my mind opened some more
jimc is offline  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:02 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent:
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.06519 seconds with 7 queries