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Old September 10, 1999, 12:17 PM   #1
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Join Date: March 2, 1999
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Being a college student, I am usually BROKE! So, when the gunshow comes to town I stock up on ammo. Last show I bought some Russian 9mm. It looked like any other 9mm I've shot except that it had a green finish on the case. I was recently shooting this ammo at a local indoor range when a live round jammed. I have a Glock 17 and this is the first time it has ever jammed a live round. I did everything I knew to do and could not free the jam. I left the pistol on the range and got a range officer to take a look at it. He disappeared into a back room with my gun and emerged about five minutes later with my gun and the live round, now free from it's Glock prison. He held a magnet to the bullet and told me not to shoot that ammo at the range anymore. He went on to tell me that this ammo was steel and it pierces thier backstop and causes all kinds of damage. Is this true or is this guy trying to sell me some ammo?
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Old September 10, 1999, 12:53 PM   #2
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That's a standard indoor range line of BS. Russians don't use hardened steel, so I don't see how it could pierce their backstop. I suppose that since they can't really determine whether it's hardened or not, any bullet that fails the, "magnet test," should not be used in their range.

I had the same problem with the Russian 9mm and my CZ-75. Bang! Bang! click. Bang! click. I was able to unload it on my brother (gave it to him, not shot him) and he proceeded to run it through his Ruger P85 without a hitch.
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Old September 11, 1999, 12:19 AM   #3
George Hill
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Hardened or otherwise - I have yet to see a Bullet fired from a servce type handgun pierce armour, Russian - Iranian or Handloaded.

Many indoor ranges want you to buy ammo onsite - but it really doesnt have anything to do with the backstop. BUT - you are a guest on some one elses range... so you have to play the game the way they want.
Or you can opt out... And find a different range.

"Supreme authority derives from a mandate from the masses. Not from some farsicle aquatic ceremony."

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Old September 14, 1999, 05:10 PM   #4
Doug in PHX
Join Date: January 14, 1999
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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I worked at an indoor range for 3 years. Steel jacketed or steel core ammo is a real problem on indoor ranges. The range I worked on had angled armor plates as their backstop, and bullets are supposed to break up when they hit the backstop. The problem with the steel ammo is that sometimes pieces will bounce back to the firing line and strike the shooters. We have had instances where blood was drawn, and the backstop is 25 yards from the firing line. If your range uses some other kind of backstop that is supposed to absorb the rounds rather than break them up, it is possible that steel rounds would overpenetrate and cause damage.

I would avoid using this ammo at the indoor range. It should be fine for outdoor use, but not on steel targets closes than 50 yards.

[This message has been edited by Doug in PHX (edited September 14, 1999).]
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Old September 15, 1999, 02:03 PM   #5
Nestor Rivera
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Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Yea, my range does not like steel core either (the owner allow me to shoot it though) there reason is kind of odd they think that the 7.62x39 stuff is shattering and the prices are cutting the target lines. Personaly I dont belive it, methinks that a lot of AK/SKS blasters cant hold there sights on target. Oh its a 100yds indoor with Sand bearm and Steel plate + concrete wall
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Old September 16, 1999, 07:46 AM   #6
Ken Cook
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I know, I know, it's not hardened steel, and I'll shoot it out of YOUR gun all day long if you don't mind, but there's NO WAY I'm going to let those little "bore erasers" pass through my barrels!
Too many times, I've seen white hot sparks come flying out of the muzzle. OBVIOUSLY not burning powder, but actual metal shavings.
Sure! It's case metal! Sure it is!
(Hey Cool! I've never seen a smooth bore CZ75 before!)

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Old September 16, 1999, 04:47 PM   #7
cornered rat
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Hmmmm...I have seen sparks (or just flame) come out of my Makarov with Russian ball (which won't stick to a magnet) and Cor-bon JHPs and Blazer JHPs...are you sure I am erasing the rifling? I have seen warnings about using steel-jacketed ammo in match rifles, but didn't think it mattered much in handguns. What's the scoop?
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Old September 17, 1999, 12:42 AM   #8
George Hill
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I doubt those are real "sparks" as metal off metal sparks...
What your seeing is burning powder fly out the bore.

As for bounce back - I can understand that. I was hit by a bounce back on an out door range. During my acadamy we were firing at the 3 yard line. The ground was frozen, burm too... the slug was bounced back into me. Hurt too. A piece of metal also hit me in the lip. 1/4th inch metal sliver in my lip I had to have a nurse remove. Steve Whitmore kinda freaked out about it - liability or what not. I figured what the heck - it didn't slow me down any so who cares about liability? Thought did not even cross my mind!
The thought DID when I got my rotor cuff torn in my shoulder during arrest control class. But I was able to graduate with my class anyways - so all was fair. I can heal - but I did not want to go through the academy again!

"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
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