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Old July 18, 2011, 06:18 PM   #276
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Perhaps, we need to elect common men to legislatures and get rid of stupid, complex, and confusing laws and return to a somewhat simpler time when a felon got what he deserved when they attacked innocent, hard working members of society.
Perhaps ... but then again how do you really identify the good guys, from the bad guys ... look at the color hat they might be wearing ?

Do the bankers, presidents, corporate officers and elected officials that violate their oath deserve similar fate ?

Do you suggest the freedom to blow away anyone that bothers you in anyway, then pump 5 rounds into him so you can say the guy wanted my wallet and said he would kill me if I did not hand it over. Without the badguy, who is to say that is not how it went down ?

A lot of folks fabricate the story. Whose besides your own are you going to believe ? The innocent, hard working members of society ? Have you driven over the speed limit this year ?

When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.
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Old July 18, 2011, 07:00 PM   #277
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Posted by BlueCord:I mean, look back not 50-50 years ago and half the laws we have on the books now didn't exist.
Well, some of them didn't. There were no laws about Internet stalking.

But the law that Ersland was charged, tried, and convicted of breaking was essentially the same in effect as those that were in force during the time of Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, or Geoffrey Chaucer; one could not murder another person under Mosaic law, or under the Code of Hammurabi, without being punished.

Hammurabi died more than 3,750 years ago.

People haven't changed that much in the last 50-60 years that we now must have explicit laws on self defense, castle doctrines, ...
And so did we many centuries ago. Much of today's conceptual framework of self defense law can be studied by reading the works of Sir William Blackstone, written about a quarter of a millenium ago and often cited in early American court decisions.

Do not confuse the proper punishment of a felon with the laws concerning the use of force.

...the 16 yr old was committing a forcible felon!
And Ersland lawfully employed deadly force to stop that forcible felony with a single shot to the head.

After that, the sixteen year old was not longer committing a forcible felony, and it's what Ersland did then that put him in jail.

Last edited by OldMarksman; July 18, 2011 at 07:11 PM.
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Old July 18, 2011, 07:20 PM   #278
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Lol, can't even reply to that one! Admittedly, I wouldn't want to be judged a Klansman, but I'll take my chances rather than commit murder. So whether they were from a trailer park or a ghetto, I don't know if that makes as much difference to me as it does to Blue.
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Old July 18, 2011, 08:52 PM   #279
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At 280 posts, just about everything that can be said, has been said. Usually, threads like this deteriorate much sooner, but this one lasted much longer, which leaves me proud of most of the TFL members that participated here.

None the less, I think it's time to say good night to this one, so that it can, at least, go into the archives as a positive thing.

So to most here, my thanks .

TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do.

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Old July 18, 2011, 08:56 PM   #280
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This thread is now closed.

First because it may just have outlived its purpose. But mostly because of the current iteration of "Kill 'em all and let God sort it out," mentality that has shown up.

We do not advocate unlawful acts on TFL, even by inference. Such action will generally get another action - the ban stick.

Hmmmm... Cross posting with Charlie!

Last edited by Al Norris; July 18, 2011 at 10:31 PM. Reason: decision made
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Old September 12, 2016, 08:21 PM   #281
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Please forgive the zombie thread posting, especially on one that's so old. I'm posting only to add some relevant info for future readers, should anyone go digging through the archives someday looking for more about this case.

1) In 2014, Jerome Ersland pleaded guilty to a drug charge while he was in prison. Relevant quote:
His new felony conviction Monday is a blow to his hopes that a governor someday will pardon him or commute his sentence. “I think it will hurt his chances,” said his attorney, Doug Friesen.

Ersland was caught with the contraband, the powerful painkiller fentanyl, on Nov. 25, 2012, at the Joseph Harp Correctional Center in Lexington. A corrections officer reported finding two fentanyl patches on Ersland after he finished a weekend visit inside the prison with his son.
2) By Sept 2015, Ersland's second appeal to the OK Court of Appeals had been unanimously rejected, and he filed a federal appeal. Quote from the relevant article:
In a petition filed in August in Oklahoma City federal court, Ersland ... claims a post-conviction investigation turned up evidence that explained why he thought Parker had shot at him. He claims experiments show the bullet he described as having whizzed by his head likely was a ricochet from his own gun. He claims the sound he thought was a gunshot was a trash container breaking.

He also claims he recovered memories about the shooting because of the post-conviction investigation. He claims he had suppressed the memories because of post-traumatic stress disorder. He claims he now remembers he had a second gun in his pocket, not in a counter drawer.

... Prosecutors dispute Ersland's claim that the second gun was in his pants pocket. “Apparently when petitioner acquired these new memories, he also forgot that the entire incident was caught on surveillance video,” prosecutors have stated. “The jury saw petitioner retrieve the gun from the drawer with their own eyes when they watched the video of it happening.”
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