9mm Ammo

[loc123]

I have had my ammo in my Glock 19 factory magazines for about 20 years now. I have taken them in and out a few times.

With that said I want to shoot all the ammo and replace it with "new and improved" up to date ammo.

This will be used for home protection as well as concelled carry. I dont have children so pentetration thru house walls etc is not a concern.

I know there are many articles on the web i.e. chuck adams etc but these all seem a bit dated and i'm assuming there are some better choices currently than there was in 2006.

[481]

Originally Posted by loc123:

I have had my ammo in my Glock 19 factory magazines for about 20 years now. I have taken them in and out a few times.

With that said I want to shoot all the ammo and replace it with "new and improved" up to date ammo.

This will be used for home protection as well as concelled carry. I dont have children so pentetration thru house walls etc is not a concern.

I know there are many articles on the web i.e. chuck adams etc but these all seem a bit dated and i'm assuming there are some better choices currently than there was in 2006.

Why get rid of them now? They are only 20 years old.

Man, I feel like I am being negligent if I don't burn off what I am carrying during a range session and replace it with fresh ammo everytime that I go shooting. Can't imagine keeping ammo in my gun for even a year without a change...

There are indeed many better choices available, just find a bullet weight that appeals to your needs and go from there. Taken from Doc Robert's 'site over at m4carbine.net, here are a few 9mm loads that oughtta suffice for most anything that you might encounter:


9mm
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

[Sevens]

It begs the question...
Has your G19 not been shot in 20 years?

Do you think it's a great idea to employ a pistol in a defensive role that hasn't been shot in 20 years? Are you getting practice with a different handgun over that 20 years or do you expect the hardware to do all of the work for you?

Anything from the list that 481 posted will be fine, I guess. Doesn't seem to matter if you aren't going to try any of them anyway.

They'll either work... or they won't... and you'll either find out some time in the next 20 years if something happens... or you won't if nothing does.

[loc123]

Wow. I feel like I have to defend myself over a question about current ammo.

I am can hold my own with this hand gun as well as others that I own (SP101,SW .44, LCP,Mark III,Tauras 96, Beretta .25) as well as trap, skeet, archery(both 3d and bullseye) etc.

I shoot something weekly.

Now to get back to addressing your guys questions I do not feel that it is necessary to shoot a magazine full of protection ammo at $30 a box each time i'm at the range. I like to shoot roundball or lead from any of the above handguns to become very familiar with them in many different positions and configurations. i.e. laser, red dot, weak hand, flashlight use, etc.

Maybe some of you are have more disposable income to shoot $100 worth of protection ammo a week/month in addtion to the using of target ammo.

I was just wanting to replace my ammo and was looking to see if there was something on the market that is more efficient.

I dont feel like I have to apologize but sorry if you got the impression that I have not shot in 20 years that is way off base.

[loc123]

Also, there has been some reading that 147 is not the way to go in 9mm?

So no 115 gr is acceptable as it what it was in past years?

[TBT]

Anyone that tells you that 147gr ammunition doesn't work is regurgitating out of date information. Get a modern hollow point design from a big name manufacturer in the 124-147gr range and roll with it. HST, Ranger, Golden Saber, Gold Dot, etc. Frankly, go with whatever you can get the best deal on, it's all quality stuff. Just buy enough to test it in your gun before relying on it. I recommend 300-500 rounds minimum before I would trust it.

[JC57]

Winchester Ranger T 124 gr +P, or Federal HST 124 gr +P are both good choices.

I've ordered mine from AmmunitionToGo.com and SGAmmo.com with no problems. They have a wide variety of SD ammo in stock, and sell in boxes of 50 at pretty decent prices.

Nothing wrong in my opinion with the 147 gr. offerings either.

Edit: Other than firing enough of it to make sure your gun will feed it reliably, I'm not a big fan of burning up expensive SD ammo either.

If you want to get some practice with something approaching the +P recoil levels, the Winchester Ranger NATO rounds are fairly hot loads, but are available for around $13 a box of 50. I think SGAmmo.com still has some in stock, I bought mine from AmmunitionToGo but they seem to be sold out.

[Sevens]

Nope, I don't burn through a bunch of high-dollar defense ammo either. A box or two through it to make sure it feeds without fail, then I tailor my handloads to give a similar recoil feel.

You specifically said:

I have had my ammo in my Glock 19 factory magazines for about 20 years now. I have taken them in and out a few times.

I don't think it's a stretch to read that and wonder out loud if the pistol has been shot in 20 years.

You don't have to feel like you are defending yourself, but if you say something that leaves some obvious holes, there is a fine chance that someone will attempt to fill those holes with questions if you don't.

As for the ammo, I agree with you -- there are certainly better choices in defense ammo now than there was 20 years ago, perhaps nowhere more than in 9mm.

What was the ammo that you had loaded all these years?
Super-Vel?

[.357SIG]

Now to get back to addressing your guys questions I do not feel that it is necessary to shoot a magazine full of protection ammo at $30 a box each time i'm at the range.

Buy the WIN USA JHPs or REM UMC JHPs, as they are cheap, and work as well in human flesh and bone as any other wonder round out there. The big difference is the extra muzzle flash that the premium rounds do not have, due to a low-flash powder. They are cheap, and you can practice with them at the range without breaking the bank.

The whole idea of a perfectly-engineered JHP is great, but they are no more reliable when they traverse the differing densities of human tissue than anything else, with one exception...a bonded JHP will have a much higher chance of retaining its jacket and weight as it passes through. Some examples of the problems any bullet can encounter are:

• destruction (closing) of the hollow point cavity when striking bone first before entering the areas containing vital organs. Examples include the head, ribs, and hip areas. This makes the bullet essentially a FMJ;
• deformation or less-than-optimal expansion of the JHP cavity when entering dense muscle first, then advancing toward vital organs (this would worsen if the JHP went through muscle, then bone);
• incomplete opening of JHP cavity when entering through the chest wall and into the fully-inflated lung;
• full expansion of the JHP cavity too early because it entered dense muscle tissue, slowing the bullet down before reaching vital organs.

This list could go on forever because there are a million different possible ways for the bullet to enter the body. That also means there are a million different ways the bullet could perform due to that fact.

Since ammo went up in price, I have pretty much just bought the 50-round boxes of WIN JHPs from Wal-Mart for defense. They cost about half the price of the premium rounds, and are very accurate. Like I said, they do flash a little more, and they do not have the nickel case or primer sealant (not critical for water-tight rounds anyway, unless you SCUBA dive with them!) If you just can't bring yourself to buy these rounds, and must have the latest premium defense round, try something bonded, like Speer Gold Dots, Federal HST, or whatever else.

[BigJimP]

I agree with you about not shooting a lot of defensive ammo - it just makes no sense... so I rarely shoot it either ( except to make sure it runs 100% in the gun I choose to carry it in).

Personally, I like the Federal Hydra Shok in 9mm and other calibers. I know there is some info out there saying 147gr isn't your best option in the
9mm ....but for the most part, I think 147 gr is just fine in a 9mm ....but no reason not to use 124 gr or even 115 gr either ( whichever round you have confidence in / and feel shoots the most accurately in your weapon).

A lot of the "talk" these days is away from 1911's ...but I will keep carrying a 1911 as well ...and if I carry one in 9mm...the HydraShoks at 147gr go in it .../ if I carry a gun in .45 acp ...then the 230gr Hydra Shoks go in it ...

After all - its all about shot placement ...not so much the bullet / and all of the defensive ammo out there ...from reputable companies is pretty good stuff. I don't think there is one brand that stands head and shoulders above the rest --- its just a lot of "marketing speak".

I believe you should carry the gun you shoot the best ...so a 1911 goes with me 99% of the time...and caliber - and bullet selection is really secondary ...but for me, its been HydraShok ammo for a long time...and I don't feel any need to use the latest - or greatest - innovation .../ just because its written up in a gun magazine..

[loc123]

I have federal Hydroshocks in there now the 147's.

[481]

Originally Posted by loc123

Wow. I feel like I have to defend myself...

Well, I sure hope that I didn't make you feel that way since it was not my intent. That's why I included the little after my comment:

Why get rid of them now? They are only 20 years old.

Just razzin' you a little since you put it out there that the same ammo has resided in your pistol for two decades.

As for my comment:

Man, I feel like I am being negligent if I don't burn off what I am carrying during a range session and replace it with fresh ammo everytime that I go shooting. Can't imagine keeping ammo in my gun for even a year without a change...

...it was simply a reflection of my comfort level since I mentioned only myself and it wasn't aimed at you. My apologies if it struck you like that.

Ultimately, I was only interested in pointing you in the direction of ammo in various weights that is generally considered to be the most desirable for general use.

The 9mm 147 gr. HydraShok is a good round although a bit dated in its design. This is not to say that it is a bad round given that it was, at one time, the issued ammunition by one of the Agencies that I was employed by and I carried it while so employed over a span of several years (nearly a decade) with total confidence. We had a long string of successful shootings (the bad guys were neutralized and the good guys went home in one piece to their families) over that time period without so much as a single failure and to this day I would carry that ammo again without reservation. (Sometimes I still do, just for nostalgia's sake)

Regardless of caliber, my preference (yours may differ) goes to a "heavy-for-caliber" JHP, with a muzzle velocity between 800 and 1,000 fps that can provide about 14 inches of penetration even after encountering an intervening barrier.

I think you've got a winner.

[PeterGunn]

I've been loading Federal's 9BP (115gr. JHP) in my 9mm pistols now for the better part of 15 years and see no reason to switch. It's accurate, reliable, and they don't beat my guns to smithereens when I shoot at the range. I've never really bought into the +P hype... and I may be missing something here, but hopefully focusing on shot placement will over come my defensive rounds shortcomings

That and a fairly good price point ($16/box of 50) keeps me happy.

[8shot357]

Gold Dot, etc. Frankly, go with whatever you can get the best deal on, it's all quality stuff. Just buy enough to test it in your gun before relying on it. I recommend 300-500 rounds minimum before I would trust it.

Must be cool to be rich!

Us poor folks can barely afford a good gun, let alone put it through $$$$$$$$$$$ of...........

thanks for your info.

[MLeake]

If you don't want to shell out the cash for a good ammo reliability check in an auto, I would recommend going with a revolver.

It sucks to find out the round you chose doesn't like your feed ramp, or has trouble cycling your slide.

[8shot357]

If you don't want to shell out the cash for a good ammo reliability check in an auto, I would recommend going with a revolver.

It sucks to find out the round you chose doesn't like your feed ramp, or has trouble cycling your slide.

I'm not that poor. But I don't believe you have to put 300-500 Gold Dots through your semi. I could do that, but I'd have to replace them at todays prices.:barf:

I know a guy that never shot one single shot through his brand new Taurus 605, and he carries it for SD, now that is poor.

MLeake,

I understand what your saying, but some people can't afford to put multiple rounds through there "gun" like we can.

[TBT]

Must be cool to be rich!

Us poor folks can barely afford a good gun, let alone put it through $$$$$$$$$$$ of...........

thanks for your info.

300 rounds of defense ammunition is like $150. If you're serious enough about guns to own one for self defense you should be serious enough about them to invest $150 in making sure it will do it's job when called upon.

[lawnboy]

I get that really good JHP's are pricey. I get the poverty argument. But if you can't afford to pump a minimum of 100-200 rounds of whatever you want to carry through your carry gun then you haven't prepared adequately. If you want to save money buy a less expensive gun. Or a used gun. Or a less expensive used gun.

I feel better with a less expensive, used gun loaded with old fashioned JHP's that I had proofed with 200rds of that ammo than with a brand new Glock loaded with Winchester PDX (or other pricey round) and only a couple mags of proof rounds.

You can get 100 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense 9mm for about 80bucks (or less) if you shop around online. Small price for the confidence that shooting it up will give you.

[ClydeFrog]

I didn't read all the posts here & I may have posted a message too but I don't recall it so here goes;

For general carry/CCW use, I would buy a few boxes of these 9mm(9x19mm) rounds; Corbon DPX, PowRball, Glaser Safety Slug, Hornady TAP or Critical Defense, Ranger T 124gr JHP +P bonded, the Speer Gold Dot 124gr JHP +P, the Golden Saber 124gr JHP +P, or the highly rated Winchester Ranger T 127gr +P+ JHP round.
I also suggest packing a JHP or frangible load in your pistol magazine & using a ball or FMJ type load(Federal EFMJ, PowRball, Ranger T 124gr 9mmNATO, etc) in your spare or 2nd/3rd Glock mags.

Clyde F
www.SGammo.com www.Natchezss.com www.Midway-USA.com

[loc123]

Picked up some Critical Defense this week.

[Sevens]

I have no idea how Critical Defense does on a human subject, and I have no idea how it does in any sort of penetration testing. NONE. I know that it looks cool, feeds well through one of my pistols, and it's cheaper than a lot of the defense ammo and it's available in stock.

However...
For a 9mm and a 115 grain bullet, the Hornady Critical Defense does NOT post impressive velocity numbers.

Again, I don't know how that might translate to defensive use... I'm not in that industry, honestly. But if you are a numbers guy, Critical Defense does not hang with the big hitters in defense ammo. (Gold Dot, Federal HST, Winchester SXT, etc) I doubt it even hangs with Hornady's other premium brand, TAP-FPD.

Also, on a semi-related note, Hornady has recently introduced Critical Defense in 10mm, to be sold exclusively at Cabela's and nowhere else.

And like many 10mm factory offerings, it's weak, watered down, not at all to proper 10mm specs, and loaded very much like a .40 S&W. If you know much about factory 10mm ammo, you know this is common out of all of the big companies. For proper factory 10mm, you must buy from a boutique manufacturer. Most of the rest are loaded light, and this new Critical Defense in 10mm is no exception to that.

[voyager4520]

I'd go with Gold Dot 124+P, Ranger T or PDX1 147.

[TBT]

When I bought my first M&P9 I ran 400 rounds of Ranger 127+p+ through it without issue in order to check the function. When I picked up another M&P9 last year I ran 500 rounds of P9HST3 through it (124+p) without fail. I feel better testing the firearm with the ammunition I intend to use.

As for the Critical Defense ammunition I would worry about the penetration that a 115 grain bullet not moving that awful fast could achieve. Since I really don’t buy into the whole “stopping power” argument penetration rules for me. I usually gravitate toward 124-147 grain bullets. With the rifling on the M&P being what it is the 124-127 grain bullets seem to be more accurate in the gun so I’ve stayed in that range for carry. Otherwise I probably would have went with the 147 grain offerings because of the penetration they offer at lower velocities.

[crackerjack44]

I have been useing Winchester white box 115g in my new Beretta 92fs and though it is shooting great,I was wondering if anyone has found other brand ammo cleaner??

[fire4606]

"Anyone that tells you that 147gr ammunition doesn't work is regurgitating out of date information."

As recently as 2006 references, this suggestion comes from the likes of Massad Ayoob, Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow, these would be people i would listen too.

"I've been loading Federal's 9BP (115gr. JHP) in my 9mm pistols" Ditto, street proven, lab proven to function as it's supposed to, it is not hot ammo, +p, but works at it's designed standard velocity, and works reliably.

I used to be issued hydra shok 147's... so i've got some confidence in the hydrashocks also.

Carry gun, prospective carry round, i shoot 50 rounds of what I intend to carry, if it functions 100% i don't worry about it anymore and swap out for new ammo every year or two, the only real problem is if the bullets have become pushed down into the case, which i keep an eye on.

Don't really believe age effects ammo much, i have some of the most unreliable ammo in the world, 22 rimfire, bulk pack, uber cheap stuff that i've had stored in a shed in a cardboard box since 1996 in humid iowa. (Stuff was purchased in the early 90's, 91 92ish if i remember correctly) So far this spring i've gone through 3 550 packs, and experienced TWO misfires, that's it.