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Old March 29, 2011, 02:14 AM   #26
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I ususally only carry one weapon on my person. But in the car I usually have a backup pistol in glove box, extra rounds for both, 2 small cans of pepper spray, Knife/box cutter, about a 2ft piece of galvanized pipe, & a 2 million candle spotlight!

I bought two pepper sprays so I could spray one to see how it works & still have a fresh one to use.

Other than that, no real formal training...But I have been shooting stuff, beating stuff, & cutting stuff for the better part of my life
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Old March 29, 2011, 02:28 AM   #27
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Old March 29, 2011, 03:10 AM   #28
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If you have ASP baton or knife out, then obviously you are doing something wrong. You should be hiding out somewhere with your cell phone calling in the highly paid law enforcement officers to do their job.
Nothing wrong with defending yourself by any means and I don't know of any law enforcement officers who are highly paid.
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Old March 29, 2011, 06:53 AM   #29
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It is good to see the number of folks who aren't "defenseless" simply because they don't have a gun. I don't have formal training in secondary weapons, but I too am far from defenseless without a gun, though I sometimes carry a bug.

but I suggest you Google it and find out for yourself. Most officers earn more then the average citizen, are usually some of the top municipal earners and make well into six digits with full benefits paid and the opportunity to retire at age 50.
Cops may make more than the average population, but not really anymore than folks with jobs of comparable civic duties. Few make 6 figures.

Firemen make slightly less, but still above the "averge" worker.

In response to Glenn Bartley, I do not believe there is a police chief out there that would encourage their officers to go beyond being a good witness. The fact is the officer could easily be mistaken for the bad guy. There have been times when off-duty officers were shot by the on-duty officers. Then usually off-duty officers who use their weapons usually wind up in some type of trouble. Im not saying off-duty officers should not defend themselves when threatened directly with deadly force, I am just saying its probably better if they use their cellphones to call the on-duty officers to handle the situation and retreat to safer ground. For example, chasing a burglary suspect while off-duty or something like that. Its probably best to let the on-duty guys get the job done.
This is wrong. Here, I would suggest you take your own advice and Google the subject. Several departments of which I know require their officers to respond to the best of their abilities and situation if witnessing a felony activity. That may be in being a good witness given the activity or activily working to resolve the situation.

If the concern for being mistaken for a bad guy was that big, there would be no plain clothes police officers.

Required to respond while off duty examples...

Also, why would you assume that all off duty officers were out of uniform?
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Old March 29, 2011, 07:46 AM   #30
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Well, south of the Mason Dixon Line, I do know there are some departments which allow their officers to take home their vehicles. I'm not certain as to the logic behind it, but I suspect its a creative way to get more work out of the officers and to make it appear there are more officers patrolling the street.
It's actually a creative way to get officers to take premium care of their duty vehicle. When several officers have to share a vehicle between shifts, the poor cars tend to get bumped, mistreated, and ran dry. And when damage is noticed, you have to deal with all of the "That was already there..." statements before you assign blame and responsibility to one person. When an officer gets a take-home-car, they take care of it as if it was their own, and the department actually ends up paying less money in the long run for maintenance.

but I suggest you Google it and find out for yourself. Most officers earn more then the average citizen, are usually some of the top municipal earners and make well into six digits with full benefits paid and the opportunity to retire at age 50.
Holy cow! If this is true, then why isn't EVERYONE a police officer?!
... ... ... .... Being a cop comes pretty cheap when you consider what it SHOULD cost to salary someone at government wages for hazard pay every minute they are on the job. Find some other job that starts you at 30-40k a year. How likely are you to get shot or killed at that job? I find statements like this above offensive. We don't do enough for our officers, and many of them work daily in the face of criticism and disdain.

Thank you for your service.

***Back on topic***

Options are always good. Always. You don't have to use your other options; or even consider them. But they are good to have. Carrying other defense devices gives you more options. If you witness a male acquaintance assaulting a female friend, depending on your state, you can shoot him to stop him. But that is a big roll of the dice. There are so many unknowns: How will YOU deal with it? How will his family deal with it? How will the DA see it? Will you face a civil suit? Will you go to jail for murder because of a mistaken witness? Will you lose your gun rights forever?

If you decide to carry a taser, and you employ it effectively to stop the assault, even if the DA had it out for you, there was a mistaken witness, he and his family wanted to file a civil suit; the stakes are much lower. You face mistaken assault charges instead of mistaken murder charges. Why? Because you didn't have to kill him to stop him.

Now this is just one example... but if you picture a self-defense scenario like your run of the mill maintenance problem; would you rather go in there with a tool bag or an adjustable wrench?

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ- Greek:"Come and take them..." Meaning: Here we peaceably stand as armed and free men, willing to defend that peace, and ready to make war upon anyone who threatens that freedom.
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Old March 29, 2011, 09:02 AM   #31
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Salary and pay is an off-topic discussion, but I suggest you Google it and find out for yourself.
No I don't need google I found out the harder way, I work in law enforcement, left a job that paid almost 3 times as much too. But your right about one thing we are off topic.

Everyone who carries should have a means of non lethal defense. If you are skilled with tooth and claw thats fine, carry spray, taser, baton whatever thats good too. Those who aren't should seriously look into more training and/or something alternate to their firearm.

Why would you use anything other than a gun? if you beat a guy with a steel object you are assaulting another, if it is that bad then shoot him. Beat him you may be sued or arrested IMHO.
Its not neccissarily about the tool but the justification. I think you would be in a lot more trouble afterwards if you shot someone who was unarmed while defending yourself, than just clubbing or striking that person with an intermediate weapon even if you killed em. Most places that allow you to stand your ground allow a person defending themselves a level of force up from their assailant. I think you would have a lot less trouble conveing self defense if you whack a guy 3 or 5 times that obviously didn't get away from you after the first over just shooting him.

If there isn't means, ability or jeopardy. You need another option. Give yourself one.IMO
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Old March 29, 2011, 01:34 PM   #32
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Always have a knife to back up the gun. It's a tactical folder that can be passed off as a tool.

Eight years of professional trainning in Kenpo with a focus on the blade. Will I get cut in a knife fight if it turns out that way, yes. Am I afraid. No
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Old March 29, 2011, 04:51 PM   #33
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What does a old guy carry

Can't fight, can't run. All he can do is shoot.
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Old April 16, 2011, 09:10 PM   #34
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Numchucks if I feel the need.
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Old April 16, 2011, 09:49 PM   #35
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Well if I have my pants on I have a knife. I do kali so I would say my skills have improved with the blade too, but if 29 rounds of 9mm hollow point aren't doing the trick I am probably will be locked up in the fetal position crying because the bad guy has me seriously outgunned.
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Old April 16, 2011, 09:54 PM   #36
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Pepper spray -- everywhere except where prohibited.

The Sheriff's Department trained me on it years ago. It's not a guarantee but I've seen it work more often than not.
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Old April 16, 2011, 10:15 PM   #37
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Use of deadly force: non lethal weapon systems...

I started to carry a Mark III size can of chemical agent on my armed security details about 6 years ago. I've been state licensed & trained with firearms for many years but after a handful of incidents, I started to carry chemical agent on duty too.
The use of deadly force is the LAST line or level you must use in a real critical incident. To have a EDW/Taser or impact weapon(along with the formal skill training) you'll have a advantage.

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Old April 17, 2011, 09:36 AM   #38
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Yea I would say that an importnt part of this discussion is WHY you carry. If you are LEO or security of some type that is one thing. If you are a civi that is another.
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