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Old February 1, 2011, 02:00 PM   #1
mdub
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effective range for scope

i need a scope for a "new to me" rem 700 classic, 300 savage. I realistically see myself using this for deer/varmint hunting between 50 and 200 yards.

Would any of these scopes do the job?

-Bushnell Elite 3200 Tactical Rifle Scope 10x 40mm Mil-Dot Reticle
-Nikon Prostaff Rifle Scope 4-12x 40mm Mil-Dot Reticle Matte
-Redfield Revolution 4-12x40mm Accu-Range


Do i really need an adjustable objective (ao)?
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Old February 1, 2011, 02:18 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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10 or 12x is good for deer as far as you can shoot.... probably farther, unless you're a retired sniper. If you're going to shoot long range you need adjustable objective (parallax).


I know nothing of the Redfield. The other two are decent scopes.
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Old February 1, 2011, 02:19 PM   #3
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No you don't need an AO for shooting that rifle. What are most of your shots going to be? Parallax plays a much bigger role the farther out you are but most people buy scopes with all these bells and whistles and cannot even use a standard reticle for measuring simple things like a deers spread.

Get a 3X9 scope with the Objective size of your choice and a regular reticle or something simple like a #4 and work with it. The Bushnell is the better of the scopes you listed IMO but you don't need a 10X with a mil-dot. The Redfield is decent, think of it as entry level Leupold and I wouldn't waste my money on the Nikon (its been said before, but you ever wonder why places like Natchez have so many "refurbished" Nikon scopes? No thank you, I'll take mine "furbished" the first time around).

Natchez and Midway both have Glass on sale right now and you can get some decent deals on them, Leupold too.
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Old February 1, 2011, 04:00 PM   #4
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Deer to 200 yards????

Any good 4X scope will work. I use a Weaver 4X on my Model 70 in 270. I'd never hunt that far but I have hit gongs to 1400 yards. If I miss (and I do) it isn't the scopes fault its because I screw up the wind calls.

I taught Sniper Schools using the M1C/D using the 2.2X M-82 scopes. We had no problems on our 1100 yard range, except, again, when we screwed up our wind or other environment calls.

200 yards isn't very far, I'd recommend a low power scope because you are going to get a larger field of view which I think is more important then power for hunting. Also for the same quality scope, you'll have better light gathering abilities with the lower power scopes.
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Old February 1, 2011, 04:21 PM   #5
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For out to 200 yds, a 3-9 variable will suit you quite well.
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Old February 1, 2011, 04:33 PM   #6
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The ranges you are talking could be covered by a good small dot red dot sight.

A 3-9 power scope is the normal for most hunting rifles, and it will allow you good target recognition and identification at these distances.
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Old February 1, 2011, 04:43 PM   #7
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I agree with kraigwy about the low-power scopes. For deer hunting to 200 yards, any good fixed 4X is plenty. I've got more scope than I need on most of my rifles and I find myself carrying them on 3X or 4X for most of my hunting.

Most hunters like variables, and the market reflects that. There are some great bargains on variables these days and fixed power scopes are somewhat harder to find.

That said, Weaver and Leupold make nice fixed power scopes.
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Old February 1, 2011, 05:03 PM   #8
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For hunting I would recommend the 3x9 to anyone, not required but it does make things nicer imo. I have a few Prostaffs and love them all but the Buckmaster line for only a little more is even better. All the Nikons have great clarity though that can be matched
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Old February 1, 2011, 05:33 PM   #9
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thanks for the reposes. I have never hunted deer with a scope or owned a rifle with a scope, so I really didn't know what i needed. I doubt I'll be shooting much at 200 yards and if i did it would most likely be at paper.

I didn't realize the AO was more of a long distance shooting need, that's good to know. There seems to be A LOT of nice mid-low priced scopes out there that will fit my need, if I don't need mil-dot or AO.
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Old February 1, 2011, 05:48 PM   #10
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You can estimate about 1X per 100 yards for beginner shooters.

Some of us can shoot Long Distances with Irons only. A 6X is a good medium and Kraigwy can reitterate that.
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Old February 1, 2011, 06:09 PM   #11
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Don't go with the Prostaff. At distances between 50 and 100 yards the parallax will be awful. As others said go with a 4x fixed power scope or spend the extra $ on a better 3x9x40 scope Like a Leupold VX-2.

I had a Prostaff 3x9x40 that I put on a Camp 9 to shoot between 25 and 150 yards. The optics were clear and bright but it wasn't any good a low power at distances between 25 and 75 yards because of parallax issues. 75 yards and beyond it was fine. I went with the Leopold above and the problem was solved but it cost twice as much.
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Old February 1, 2011, 06:32 PM   #12
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I bought one of those 10 x Bushnell Elite 3200 Mildots once.I found the great big target turrets did not repeat,which defeated the scope for me.I have another Elite 4000 that is a good scope
The 300 Savage is a fine hunting round,but what are your varmint expectations?My 6x by 42 mm Leu sees well enough to shoot the diamonds on a sight in target at 300 yds .
I don't know what the quality of a Weaver K-4 or K-6 is these days,but they do offer a steel tube Classic K-4 right now.
Variables are fine if you need them,but kraigwy knows what he is talking about.The 4x was the standard of big game scopes for many years.It worked.
I set a woman up with a Leupold fixed 4x on a Sav 99 in 300 Sav once.Those scopes have a 12 in duplex.I think we zero'd at 150 yds,and I told her if the deer's body was as big as the duplex,or nearly,just shoot it.If it was much smaller,get closer.She got her deer.
You would be surrised how well a quality 6x can see.A 5.5 ACOG sees pretty well.

Last edited by HiBC; February 2, 2011 at 04:13 PM.
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Old February 1, 2011, 06:40 PM   #13
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The Prostaff is simply the best low cost scope to get, they have no parallex issues if mounted currectly using good rings. They have a great eye relief and are super bright in all lighting. I know for sure that if I were to have 400+ dollars to spend on a scope it wouldnt be a Leupold. Nikons, Bushnell, Burris are all great lower cost scopes but if Im going for a high end one id go with the Zeiss or Swarovski models over the high end Leupolds.
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Old February 1, 2011, 07:22 PM   #14
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Partial to the loopy flat 6x for that.
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Old February 1, 2011, 09:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
I realistically see myself using this for deer/varmint hunting between 50 and 200 yards.
A 3x9x40 or fixed 4x or 6x would be great for your needs. There are some sweet deals on nikon prostaffs and weaver 40/44's I saw online at natchez today both were onsale under $120 and the bushnell elite 3200's are on clearance for $150ish. Any of those 3 would be a great bang for your buck in my opinion. I am partial to the weavers because you get a great scope for the price and their customer service has been outstanding in my experience. Good luck!
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Old February 2, 2011, 08:50 AM   #16
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I just beleive that you are looking at the wrong scopes all together. The Bushnell 10X fixed power scope is a good scope but too high powered to hunt with especially at close range. The other two just have the wrong reticles especially if you know the ranges are 200 yards or less. You don't need a milling reticle or ranging reticle at those ranges a regular duplex will handle all you need.

I think the Redfield 2-7X33 would be about the smallest I go with in the scope brands you mentioned. 3-9X40 Bushnell Elite 3200 scopes are on close out right now and a very good scope for around $130. I have no experience with the Nikon Prostaff, but I have a Nikon Monarch UCC and it is a decent scope but has a few things I don't like about it.
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Old February 2, 2011, 10:08 AM   #17
Art Eatman
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Field of view is more important than magnification, for a hunter. The thing about a 3x9 is that the 9X is great for sighting in, but when actually hunting it's more useful to have the scope down at 3X or 4X for the wider field of view.

I know from experience that 3X is plenty good to 350 yards on Bambi.

For a given amount of money, the whole world is better off if you use a medium-price 4X and a decent pair of binoculars to actually take a close look at Bambi. Folks get upset when some dude using his scope for searching takes a look at them through his scope. Bummer...
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Old February 2, 2011, 10:41 AM   #18
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With the current close out pricing on the Bushnell Elite 3200's I would go with that. More than enough scope for deer at 200yds. I have used a Weaver 2.5x and 4X many a year for deer at those ranges.
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Old February 2, 2011, 10:57 AM   #19
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Any good 4X scope will work. I use a Weaver 4X on my Model 70 in 270. I'd never hunt that far but I have hit gongs to 1400 yards. If I miss (and I do) it isn't the scopes fault its because I screw up the wind calls.
I actually observed a man shoot a woodchuck at close (very close) to 600 yards with a Savage 110 in .270 using a Weaver K4. Too many shooters really don't know how to shoot, even with a scope. I'll admit, if I were going out to shoot chucks at that distance, I wouldn't pick a 4x to do it with but it can be done by a number of good shooters. Very, very few shooters will ever benefit from any scope over 9x. Not even on very long shots - 300+ yards on varmits.
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Old February 2, 2011, 12:27 PM   #20
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So I'm leaning towards Bushnell Elite or Redfield, both have good reviews. Burris and Weaver are also a possibility.

3-9x is fine with me, I like 40 or 44mm Objective.

If i go to 2-?x i'm looking at 30 or 32mm Objectives... I have no experience with this, but those sound small.
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Old February 2, 2011, 12:55 PM   #21
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I just bought an Elite 4200 2.5X10X50mm with the Illuminated dot on a #4 post and mounted it with a pair of Weaver Tactical rings on the .243 Savage Predator I got. Its and awsome scope for the price I paid for it. I sat for pigs the other night and was amazed at how much light it picked up even well after dark. Unfortunately the pigs didn't show up but I really didn't ever need to turn on the Ill dot to see when I checked it.
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Old February 2, 2011, 02:12 PM   #22
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200 yards is not so far, I like low powered scopes.
A nice 1x4 or 1x5 is likely what I would pick, but that's just opinion based on preference.
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Old February 2, 2011, 05:34 PM   #23
mdub
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What a turnaround from my original post. Thanks for your help.

I think I've narrowed it down to a Burris FullfieldII 2-7x35 ballistic plex. any nay-sayers?
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Old February 2, 2011, 05:36 PM   #24
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Burris is a good optic, nothing wrong there.
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Old February 2, 2011, 06:27 PM   #25
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I have a brand new Nikon ProStaff 4-12x40 "nikoplex reticle" scope on my newly tuned, wined, dined, and fined, Remington 597... and it's pretty hot diggity dawg for what it is... Now is it the best absolute bomb can't beat it with a stick, show it off at the range ohhh look at me i got the new hotness ? No not really,

but as many have pointed out, it is very high in value and very hard to beat at all, overall head-to-head fair comparison. I wanted a Leupold 4-12x40 sure, but the price was double. And on a Remington 597, I don't think it really would be giving me double "value". In the wine (and booze overall but mainly wine) business we use terms QPR over and over again -- QPR =- Quality - to - Price- Ratio . The wine biz uses archiac "points" to "rate" wines and its so stupid but its how things are done. Customer walks in, sees two wines: Russian River Valley pinot noir, good sort of year, from an Awesome name, just a famous famous producer, a winemaker rock star. This wine is $60 a bottle (and is his Cheapest wine. So if you want a John Smith wine, John Smith!!! you are paying minimum $60 and its hard to find. Oh this was rated 90 points by wine-rater-dooshbag-of-the-world. But in the side display over there , there's a huge floorstack of cases... This is a blended Spanish red, of grape varietals not familiar to trhe laymen. (I.e. it's a "mixture" of types most people haven't heard of because Spain grows a whole lot of it's own grape types, that no one has heard of or at least it's not as popular as "cab chard whitezin" etc.) Well this wine is $8.99, on Sale! for $6.99. But was ALSO Rated 90 Points by the very same Dooshbag! Well which wine to buy? I think almost everyone is going to agree, Well definitely John Smith pinot noir is the better wine. ITS JOHN SMITH! But that Spanish red, it got 90 points As Well - and is not $60 bucks, it's like Six bucks!!! (CLOSE enough you get my point) -- We therefore say that the cheap Spanish wine has a higher, (in this case Much Much higher) QPR - Quality to Price Ratio -- You are getting Little QPR with the 60 famous wine (it's his cheapest bottling and its supposed to be a famous faultess wine) but that Spanish wine, you're getting extreme QPR, you will be buying cases and drinking and recommending this to friends and family if you like that style.


Therefore, IMHO, it can be extrapolated that my Nikon ProStaff 4-12x40 that I got on sale for ~ $150 (instead of $190) has a higher QPR than a Leupold 4-12x40 ... minimum for a Leupold 4-12 is the Rifleman series, which is a cool $250 and that i believe is their lowest end. And I LOVE Leupold and am currently looking for one for a different rifle. I just believe my ProStaff is offering a huge QPR.
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