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Old November 22, 2010, 03:55 PM   #26
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Shot Gun or Rifle in the woods plus a pistol


I'm all in favor of having a shotgun or rifle handy when in the woods, especially in the Wilderness type areas. Out there where the predators tend to show unwary travelers real quick exactly where they stand in the food chain. I spent 83-90 up in North Dakota and got introduced to a Ruger Blackhawk and a Redhawk. Then came the Super Redhawks. Up til then I thought the .357 was one mean weapon until I ran into the .44 Mags.

I have a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in .44 Mag, with a 2.5 in barrel. A great carry piece for those days when you just don't feel like playing dead for the bear is a good idea. Even better in event that Yogi decides to eat your horse, while you're sitting in the saddle.
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Old November 22, 2010, 07:05 PM   #27
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I'd say there is a slim chance of any predators entering my home

I have been here since 1997 and have not heard of any home invasions in this neighborhood?
I did have a pressure washing machine stolen out of the back of my pickup truck 2 different times. Both times a week before Xmas= just wonderful fathers lookin' to buy their kids some presents, without actually getting a job to do it.
One time my dog went wacky out back [my home is in a sparse neighborhood and my yard is cut into the woods-the dog just goes out to do his business] I went out back and sat low and listened-I could hear someone trudging through the heavy brush.
I called the cops and they circled the area, but noone was caught.
I'm not overly concerned, and I know my .44 black powder gun is not a 357, but it's a heck of a lot more than I had for defence up until I got it!
I already had a baseball bat, mace and a stun gun by my bed! Hmmmm, I think I sound a bit paranoid?
I still think that if I fired my gun, [ even through my ceiling? ] most crooks would head on out and find an unarmed home to rob??????????
If not, I will be practicing most every week at least once a week, so i'll be as ready as I am willing to be.
I will be target shooting tomorrow and after that, i'll take the average advice and cap the loads and leave it on a safe notch. I do have to keep it in the bedroom closet though, because I have 3 grandchildren ages 3-8 that I have overnight 2-3 times a month!
I love those grandchildren!!!
You say you want to see pictures of my grandchildren?
Well, - - - - - OK! Here they are! { PS: The blonde babe is my 51 year old wife! }
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Last edited by 5282jt; November 22, 2010 at 07:14 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old November 22, 2010, 09:25 PM   #28
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You are truly blessed.

Kids and guns: Children are naturally curious. They look in closets and cabinets and dresser drawers just to see what they can find; they're not supposed to, and they know it, but they do. IF they find it they're going to play with it. If they play with it, someone is going to get hurt.

The best defense against that curiosity is education. Show them the gun; let them handle it (unloaded, of course), and let them know that it's not a toy. It's something that belongs to you and is your private property. They're not to play with it; they can see it if they ask, but they are not to touch it unless you hand it to them.

I have a good friend who used a little subterfuge in addition; he coated the gun with a thin film of oil. The youngest children thought it was 'slimy and yukky'. They had no desire to touch it after that, until they were old enough to learn to shoot it.

But, some people don't want their children to learn about guns; if that's the case with your grandchildren's parents, remove the gun from the premises when they're visiting. True, you won't have it for self defense during that time, but you also won't have to explain an AD to a grieving parent.

Closets are no barrier to inquisitive, active children.
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Old November 22, 2010, 10:25 PM   #29
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Thanks Mykeal

You are right. This closet has a very high shelf in it, but still, when they come over, i'm going to lock it up until they go home.
Their parents are not opposed to their seeing the gun, so I will also educate them and I believe I will also oil it up. That will cure the girls curiosity, i'm sure! These girls don't like "dirty hands" much!
The older grandson isn't here as often, but i'll do the same with him.
I will also let them watch me shoot a hole through plywood, so that they see how serious it is.
Thanks for the good advice!
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Old November 23, 2010, 11:47 AM   #30
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While education is crucial ( I know I'll be teaching my daughter about firearms when she's old enough..right now she can't even roll over),
What about taking the cylinder out of the gun and keeping it locked/tucked away in a drawer?
Once you get used to dropping the lever, pulling the pin, and feeding in the cylinder, "loading" an 1858 doesn't take much more time to a practiced hand than a speedloader on a modern revolver. However, to even curious children, they would still have to find BOTH piece AND get it together before the gun would operate...just a thought.

I keep all of my firearms locked up and unloaded short of the shotgun for HD. Even that is kept at cruiser ready, so in order to chamber a round the latch must be activated.
I keep my .45 in a locked safe in my closet. The key stays on my keychain which never leaves my person short of bedtime. It's unlocked at night before I go to bed, I retrieve my gun in the morning once I am dressed (it's also my carry piece). It goes in and is locked up as soon as I step in the door. I don't store it chambered and I drop the mag. So luckily, my daughter would have to figure out how to get the "stick thingy" in the gun and wrack the slide which has a pretty stiff spring.

Kids certainly make things a bit trickier, don't they
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Old November 23, 2010, 02:13 PM   #31
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Chuck ...know your C&B Rev well, make sure it functions properly and you can shoot it with accuracy...load it with Black Powder only and a proper fitting ball over the top with proper fitting caps. I recomend a Remington, Rogers& Spencer, or an ROA for a home/personal defence weaspon.
And any as long as the rev is properly tuned and you are comfortable shooting it accurately the .44 ball with BP behind it is one of the most capable rounds for droppin' a man with a one shot kill.
I have no problem myself or with anyone else keeping a C&B or any Black Powder Gun loaded for home/personal protection...if you trust and know your weapon it will serve you well.
You can keep a C&B Rev loaded indefinately by using Black Powder and yes keep it capped with a proper fitting cap.
My $.02 worth :O)
"I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington"
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Old November 23, 2010, 08:17 PM   #32
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It seems like this subject comes up every once in a while on every forum. I view it this way - HD is an individual decision. If you think you can do it with a black powder firearm - you go for it. I'm not being critical when I say that. For the OP of this thread - trust me, if you have a home invasion you are going to be so scared, especially if you wake up in the middle of the night to find a stranger in your house or room, that you'll probably be shaking so hard you won't be able to get a tin of caps open, let alone getting them from there to the nipples. Every state is different and regardless of state statutes, every individual case is different. Whatever you use for HD, you need to practice, practice, practice so you are familiar with it - whether it be a baseball bat, a pump shotgun or a handgun. The more you are familiar with it, the less likely that if something happened, you can keep a level head and react appropriately. I've shot blackpowder for over 45 years and i'm not going to debate whether a ROA or a '58 Remy is the way to go. If that is what you want to use, that is your right and preference . . . the hell with whatever anybody else thinks. For myself . . . I want something that puts me on a level playing field. I'm in Arizona during the winters and every week on the news, there are stories of home invasions and shootings - most are drug related . . . some are not. It just isn't drugs that are coming across the border . . . it's also guns and even good old American dollars from the drug cartels being brought in to be "laundered". The druggies, the gangs and the cartels are not carrying black powder weapons - they are modern, high cartridge capacity and often times, full automatics. Like I said, HD is a personal choice and decision. I know of no cases where a criminal has done a home invasion where they are armed with a "51 Colt Navy. That's why I keep a loaded 9mm automatic with a 17 round clip handy. I am not a "cocky" individual nor do I have a "Wyatt Earp" syndrome - I am just being a realist. I pray to God that I never have to use the 9mm - I also have seen and had first hand experience with shooting deaths and injuries and regardless of some of the bravado about defending your property, etc. I know that if given a choice, if I could flee and avoid a deadly confrontation, I would flee. There is nothing material that is worth a person's life - theirs or mine. But, if I or a member of my family were faced with a "life or death" situation, I can guarantee you that I would do what is necessary to preserve their life or mine. That being said, I also want to state that in my case, there are no children in the house nor is the pistol ever where an authorized person can gain access to it. If we have company or any children are around, the pistol is unloaded and locked away. This is another aspect that a person has to consider when they take on the responsibility of having a weapon in the house - there are far too many accidental shootings and deaths from loaded guns left where they can fall into the worng hands of curious children and even teenagers (and adults). Just my 2 cents.
If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63
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Old November 24, 2010, 10:02 AM   #33
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Thanks everyone! I'm going to go with seperating the capped cylinder

Gun on top shel of closet, capped cylinder in a seperate, but nearby place, the kids can't get to.
Thanks again!
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Old November 26, 2010, 05:54 PM   #34
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Why would you leave the nipples uncapped? That's the equivalent of leaving a modern revolver unloaded. What use is an unloaded gun? You really think you're gonna put those caps on when somebody is kicking in your door at 2am?

Why a BP revolver for HD in the first place?

Buy a used revolver or modern design. Load it. If you have kids or other security issues stick it in a quick-access safe. Practice with it regularly.

If you ARE limited to a BP revolver for HD for some strange reason, load it completely and do the same as above.

the kids can't get to.
You DO realize you're betting their life on that, right? Betting their life against the cost of a $100 nightstand safe.

You Do realize you're betting your family's life you can properly assemble the gun half asleep while under stress and a strict time constraint, right?
I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told, and I win where I fight."

GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
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Old November 27, 2010, 09:50 AM   #35
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I hate to spoil such a rousing debate, but if the OP wants to leave an HD cap & ball in a semi-usable condition that's his business.
As for capping the nipples without the imminent risk of being able to actually fire the HD non-weapon in an HD mode, why not just use one of those rubber nipple-capping thingies that the SASS guys use? (Kind of like a rubber ring with a set of covers that fit over all the nipples in a C&B revolver)

You should be able to strip off the rubber octopoid, fumble the can of caps out of an overcoat pocket & open the lid while half asleep & in total darkness, cap the nipples, reassemble the non-gun & blaze away 5 times ( 6 being wayyy too dangerous) before the intruder can actually lift the grand piano over his head, stagger across the living room, climb the stairs & pound the ever-loving snot out of you with it.
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Old December 2, 2010, 11:00 AM   #36
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the charcoal attracts water vapor.....

buffalo bill changed out powder & caps daily.......

just a suggestion if you aren't living in dry climate or A/C.

"When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny!" Thomas Jefferson

"They that can give up an essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety!" Benjamin franklin

The Armed Citizen PREVENTS tyranny!
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Old December 2, 2010, 03:49 PM   #37
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The idea of fumbling caps onto nipples in the dark is right out - Cripes - I have enough trouble fumbling caps on with my fingers in broad daylight.

But the idea of fumbling a loaded and capped cylinder into the frame in the dark isn't that much more appealing to me. If it slips out of your grasp and falls to the floor and one (or more) of the caps hits something hard enough .... think about it.

If a BP revolver was my only choice, I'd leave it loaded and capped with the hammer resting on the safety notch or on an empty chamber.
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Old December 2, 2010, 11:20 PM   #38
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It's pretty obvious that people have their own perceptions of home defense. Here are my thoughts:
Any weapon that fires a cartridge is likely to be more reliable than a cap and ball revolver. Any weapon that fires a shotgun load is more suited to home defense than those which don't. A homeowner who knows the layout of his own house; and is armed with a shotgun is a home invaders worst nightmare. See where I'm going with this?
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Old December 3, 2010, 08:15 AM   #39
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Good insight and I agree 100%.
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Old December 3, 2010, 09:19 AM   #40
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I would take the cylinder out only when the grandchild is there. If you need to use the gun it would be difficult to load the cylinder in the dark when you are frightened. I load cylinders in my 58 all of the time but it is not completely straight forward. You need to rotate the cylinder some and sometimes fiddle with it to get the pin to slide in. You then have to determine the orientation of the caps to the hammer if you are not ready to shoot at that instant. I have to look to see where the notch is when I am at the range. It would be easy to drop the hammer onto a cap when inserting the cylinder or hit a cap on the frame. In the Civil war during the daytime this would have been convienent (for the times) but cumbersome at night. If I was going to keep a c&b pistol for HD I would keep it loaded and capped on a safety notch. All you would need to do then would be to cock the hammer. Of course you would have to keep it in stable & reachable position (when the children are not around) I would recomend putting it in a holster with a flap when keeping it loaded.
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Last edited by mrappe; December 3, 2010 at 03:21 PM.
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Old December 5, 2010, 04:11 PM   #41
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It is 2am and you hear glass breaking, then you hear footsteps downstairs.
Do you really think that this is the time to put caps on the nipples?

It is not!
Go ahead and load that gun right so that it is ready when the time comes.

I keep two of them loaded, one upstairs, one downstairs.

In this configuration you can keep them loaded for 3 years and they will fire fine.
This is with black powder, I am not sure how long you can stay loaded with Pyrodex.
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Old December 5, 2010, 04:18 PM   #42
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the charcoal attracts water vapor.....

buffalo bill changed out powder & caps daily.......
Unfired powder as long as it's sealed off isn't. Fired powder residue is. If it was there wouldn't be loaded guns found with good powder left in them. I found a loaded 58 Remington in a barn once. The outside was pretty rough but once the loads were removed the chambers looked like new.

Wild Bill Hickok
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Old December 5, 2010, 10:32 PM   #43
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I don't want to debate weather a BP gun is good choice or not. I just have one question, just out of plain curiosity.

If someone were defend themselves with a blackpowder revolver, how effective would it be? Would one of these weapons slow someone down? How would it compare to cartridge firing handguns?
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Old December 6, 2010, 12:02 AM   #44
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1858 Remington Drop-In Conversion Cylinder

Midway USA has their 45 Colt conversion cylinder on sale. Check to see if it's a Pietta or other brand and order one. Then you get to leave your cartridge loaded pistol and not worry about misfires. Uses BP loaded 'cowboy' .45 Long Colt. product #292-272 [for the Pietta] YMMV some states restrict use of, IANAL, etc.
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Old December 6, 2010, 04:35 PM   #45
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The 44 Remington pencils out to about 38 Special in ballistic comparison. The power factor (IPSC) is about the same. with a 30gr powder charge and a ball, it would hit plenty hard maybe like a +P load.
With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball.
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Old December 6, 2010, 05:28 PM   #46
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They dropped plenty of men when they were state of the art. I don't think anything has really changed in that respect.
Reliability & accuracy have improved but a .44RB at 850 FPS is plenty lethal still.
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Old December 6, 2010, 05:39 PM   #47
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I would not steer clear of BP revolvers as a tool for defense because of a lack of lethality. The lethality of the BP revolvers is proven.

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
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Old December 8, 2010, 10:21 PM   #48
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Cap all six and place cylinder in safety so balls can't move into barrel through compacted pressure--- and keep gun angled, hopefully in a holster, downward so no oils will drip back into caps. Every few days remove caps and insert a nicol wrapped guitar string in nipple holes or something similar to clear. Examine caps and if look fouled put on new ones. Um, I would think if you fired one in self protection the noise and smoke would scare them to death before the bullet did. Be safe. I keep one like that and I live in the country. Fortunately never had to use it on no one.
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Old December 8, 2010, 10:31 PM   #49
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I decided to do as Hardy suggests

Cap all six and place cylinder in safety so balls can't move into barrel through compacted pressure--- and keep gun angled, hopefully in a holster, downward so no oils will drip back into caps. Every few days remove caps and insert a nicol wrapped guitar string in nipple holes or something similar to clear. Examine caps and if look fouled put on new ones. Um,

I think hardy is right about this too=I would think if you fired one in self protection the noise and smoke would scare them to death before the bullet did.
When the grandkids come over, I take the cylinder out and lock it up.
None of my grandchildren can get to the 7' shelf in my closet anyway, but still-can't take any chances!
Thanks everyone!
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Old January 14, 2012, 08:48 AM   #50
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Legality of a cartridge conversion!

Like the pistol, it can be shipped to you and not a FFL dealer! However, when it is assembled to the revolver, it then does become a controled firearm! If you can legaly own a firearm, your fine but if not, don't get caught with it! As a HD weapon, and you are a "FELON", you are in violation of federal law. So if succesfully defending you home, and kill the intruder, you are in violation of a second federal law, but at least you and the family are safe! You will be going away, but alive!
R&D converters are fine and sorta appear like a Percussion C&B, The Kurst converter with a loading gate (the weapon will need modification) will look like the converted ones of the 1800's. As of 2012, they cost between $200 to $350, plus modification cost (not needed on the R&D)
Check Taylor's & Company, Kurst Cartridge Conversions, Howell's Old West Conversions, Midwayusa, and many others. Good Luck! Brian
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