The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 18, 2010, 12:35 PM   #26
Senior Member
Join Date: April 27, 2010
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 421
Dang, 44 AMP stole my thunder, +1
Mal-"Jayne, how many weapons you plan on takin', you only got the two arms."
Jayne-"Well I just get excitable as to choice-like to keep my options open."
RimfireChris is offline  
Old September 18, 2010, 01:10 PM   #27
Senior Member
Join Date: September 14, 2010
Location: Placerville, Ca
Posts: 589

Good point, I have a friend that owns a bar here in Placerville (that took some hoop jumping) who is a felon by right of being a registered sex offender. The story of how that came about is about as strange as any story gets.

He had a severe case of the trots while driving, he pulled over and tried to hide as well as possible behind the edge of his car, dropped his drawers and let it fly. A cop pulled in behind him but he wasn't even close to being through so he couldn't pull his pants back up. The cop was standing behind him when another bout ripped and he crapped on the edge of the cop's shoe said cop didn't have any sense of humor or sympathy and wrote him for public exposure and defecating in a public place.

It is my opinion that the legal system was a bit overzealous on the felony thing, this is a good and responsible type guy who should not have to be deprived of the right to have and enjoy arms. He actually said he has a pretty big problem with the concept of being a registered sex offender, think about it and how badly that could be misinterpreted.

I know other people who have the lame type felony so it definitely happens.

I lived on acreage and even though people do shoot in my area it is technically incorporated city so it is illegal to discharge firearms. I had new neighbors who didn't like me shooting and I had the police show up. They told me if I were to get an overzealous cop I could have my guns confiscated and an overly aggressive DA could charge me with felony discharge in city limits. The officers who were out were sympathetic to not unleashing that nightmare and I agreed to stop shooting.

I went over and had a discussion with the neighbor (a nice one) and explained to him how badly something could be blown out of proportion if neighbors take to calling the police instead of coming over and talking to the person directly. I had him come over and showed him how I was shooting in an inner courtyard toward my house with a plenty good enough backstop that there was no possibility of strays. He agreed that had he seen where I was shooting it wouldn't have bothered him.

I stopped shooting as there was no way I wanted to push a felony that would make it illegal for me to have guns, I figured I had dodged a bullet on that one, no point in pushing it further.
Fiction is harder to write than the truth, fiction has to make sense, the truth can be unbelievable.
woodguru is offline  
Old September 18, 2010, 01:17 PM   #28
Senior Member
Join Date: June 4, 2010
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 118
I have a friend that I shoot with a lot whose dad just got out of prison. The first time we were at his place shooting, his dad came down to watch. Not thinking, I offered my gun to his dad but he declined. It hit me right then that he couldn't and I felt like an ass. He told me not to feel bad cause it was his fault, not mine. We started talking about it cause he used to own a lot of guns that his sons own now and he told me it was his responsibility to not shoot or handle guns. His wife still owns a few and keeps them at their house legally.
JMP is offline  
Old September 18, 2010, 03:06 PM   #29
Senior Member
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 1,834
America has become grossly over criminalized and that is for sure and for certain. That being said, I deal with this issue on a fairly regular basis. Felons, once they are OFF PAPER, in MO can have black powder weapons to include cap and ball revolvers. They can also have bows of any type. I always preface my statements by telling folks to call the ATF to make sure some egg head behind a desk somewhere did not go and change the rules again. No sense getting hammered in court over an act with no victim and no malice involved.

There are scads of felons out there who have that tag around their neck because of getting caught with a joint when they were 19, or getting behind on child support after an injury or some other pretty mild infraction.
"A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer
jhenry is offline  
Old September 18, 2010, 03:25 PM   #30
Senior Member
Join Date: December 29, 2004
Posts: 3,342
As far as the Feds are concerned, Charlie may not touch, let alone possess, any kind of firearm, including black powder guns.
Muzzle loaders are NOT firearms under federal law and a felon can own and shoot them depending on his STATE law.

Suzy must keep any modern firearm and ammunition inaccessible to the felon.
brickeyee is offline  
Old September 19, 2010, 02:45 AM   #31
Senior Member
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,117
Constructive Possession

Constructive possession is one of those things that no one seems to warn the felons or their families about. Yet, if discovered, DA's are all too eager to take advantage of this little understood and almost unknown portion of law.

Suzy and Charlie have to be very careful in the way they conduct their lives. In reality, if Charlie lives a "clean" life, he'll probably have little contact with the authorities. However, unforseen events can occur and it behooves Suzy and Charlie to be constantly careful.

For instance: Suzy buys a handgun and keeps it locked in a Gun-VaultĀ® and does not tell Charlie the combination. Great. Good & Legal. Except, two days a week, Suzy carpools with a coworker and leaves her car keys, including the key to the gun-vault, hanging on a hook in the kitchen or entry hall. Since Charlie has access to the key, the logical extrapolation is that he now has access to the gun...even if he's unaware that key opens the box.

If Suzy's car battery dies one morning and Charlie lets her drive his car to work while he gets her car fixed, he has a similar problem, but limited. He can get a neighbor to jump start the car, drive it to the shop, get it fixed and then.... he can't drive home. Once he arrives home with those car keys, he's legally toast. If he goes to the movies or runs errands until Suzy returns home and returns her keys to her, he's okay.

I know a couple who fought this nightmare and nearly lost everything. His "felony" conviction was adminstative related to a business he managed owned by a less than legal owner. Eleven years later, living in Sepulveda, he was laid up with severe Bronchitis and that night just around 1am two gunshots rang out in the master bedroom. He was in the guest room so he didn't infect his wife who had to work. Just outside the bedroom window lay a rather large [ethnic] man with two .38 holes in his chest.

The upshot was that police declared it a good "self-defense" shooting, but the DA, reviewing the case only saw "Felon husband" and looked at photos of the gun laying on the rumpled bed and declared it "constructive possession" by the felon and "providing" on her part. He even steered the case to an ultra-liberal judge for the arraignment who set the bail extremely high.

Two things saved them a complete trial. First was that the judge in the preliminary hearing was very good. Second, their lawyer had obtained the 911 tapes and the call-taker could be heard telling the woman to put the gun down seven times on the tape. Each time she said she "couldn't until police arrrived" and the final time when told police were there, she said "Okay, I'm putting it down now." The judge was certainly not friendly to the idea of prosecuting for "a technical violation" in the aftermath of a traumatic event. He eventually tossed it out calling the DA's "theory" that a sick man could have slipped past his wife and four police to gain access to the gun.
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
BillCA is offline  
Old September 20, 2010, 01:55 PM   #32
Senior Member
Join Date: February 25, 2009
Posts: 566
^^^ That DA should be job hunting.

A friend in Memphis has had to deal with a similar situation. To avoid risk to his wife, they have no firearms in their home, as far as I know.
orangello is offline  
Old September 23, 2010, 05:30 AM   #33
Uncle Buck
Senior Member
Join Date: June 21, 2009
Location: West Central Missouri
Posts: 2,592
I called the local ATF branch yesterday and spoke with one of their agents.

He told me that here in Missouri, Charles can not even hunt with a muzzle loader, but if he lived in Kansas he could.

Suzy can own all the firearms she wants. But, like most of you said, she needs to make sure he has no access to them. The recommendation is to have Suzy keep them at a friends house.

He went on to say that normally there would not be any problem, but if Charles ever had a serious run in with the law again, they might go digging around and use any firearm in the home against him.

His final statement was "Why take the chance?"

So thanks for all of the replies and the info you provided. Seems most of you either work for or know what the ATF rules are. Good Job all!
Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.
Uncle Buck is offline  
Old September 23, 2010, 06:52 AM   #34
Don P
Senior Member
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,649
Nothing like getting the info from the proverbial horses mouth.
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA NROI Range Officer,
ICORE Range Officer, ICORE Match Director
,MAG 40 Graduate
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old September 23, 2010, 08:35 AM   #35
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
From (florida's fish and wildlife site) and in the "ask myfwc" section using "felon hunting" as my search criteria, we get the following...

Note the "antique" description... Charlie could hunt in florida...


In regard to use of firearms by felons: It is illegal in Florida for convicted felons to possess firearms, including muzzle loading guns, unless the convicted felon has had his/her civil rights restored and firearm authority restored by the state's Clemency Board or the gun qualifies as an antique firearm under Florida statute 790.001(1). Properly licensed convicted felons may hunt with bows or crossbows during hunting seasons when such devices are legal for taking game.

A general restoration of civil rights does not include the restoration of the right to own, possess or use a firearm. In order to restore firearm authority, an application is required and there is a waiting period of eight years from the date sentence expired or supervision terminated. For more information on the clemency process and eligibility requirements, go to the Florida Parole Commission Web site at

Section 790.001(1), Florida Statutes, states, "'Antique firearm' means any firearm manufactured in or before 1918 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar early type of ignition system) or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1918, and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1918, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade." The fact that the firearm is an antique firearm is an affirmative defense that the defendant has the burden of alleging and proving. Williams v. State 482 So.2d 1051 (Fla 1986).

Convicted felons should be cautious about being in a location where a firearm is present as they may be in constructive possession of that firearm. Constructive possession occurs when the person knows about the firearm and is in a position to exert dominion and control over that firearm. A felon who is riding in a truck with other hunters who have firearms with them may be in constructive possession of those firearms, depending on the circumstances.

Convicted felons, as well as any hunter, may use a bow during all hunting seasons while hunting private lands, given they have a hunting license and any related permits. While hunting Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs), convicted felons and other hunters may use a bow during archery, general gun, spring turkey and small-game seasons, but not during muzzleloading gun season.

On private lands, crossbows may be used by any (including convicted felons) properly permitted individual during all hunting seasons except archery. On WMAs, crossbows may be used during general gun, spring turkey and small-game seasons.
hogdogs is offline  
Old September 23, 2010, 09:09 AM   #36
Senior Member
Join Date: November 11, 2009
Posts: 419
sorry deleting this post as I realize I made a silly arithmetic mistake :O
divil is offline  
Old September 23, 2010, 09:13 AM   #37
Senior Member
Join Date: November 11, 2009
Posts: 419
Note the "antique" description... Charlie could hunt in florida...
Haha OK, after confusing myself a couple of times and removing my original post, I have figured out what I meant to say (I was right the first time ): the cut off date for antiques in federal law is 1899, so Charlie could not use an "antique" firearm made between 1899 and 1918 that uses modern ammunition.
divil is offline  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2016 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent:
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10255 seconds with 7 queries