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Old September 17, 2010, 10:51 AM   #26
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I have fired a .460 Wby ONE time. That's all it took for me to be cured of the desire to own one. I would buy one of those shoulder pads the clay shooters wear under their shooting jackets.

If you want info on outfitters or the rifle, etc check out as they have the best safari/hunting forums I've ever come across.
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Old September 17, 2010, 12:53 PM   #27
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After reading the article someone linked on big game scopes.. I think I might just keep my Leupold VX7 2.5-10x45 and mount it on this gun.... I was planning to get a 1.5x5 type, but there isn't a huge difference in performance and I can save $1000+ .. anyone think that's a bad idea? The eye relief is quite good at 4.5"
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Old September 17, 2010, 01:10 PM   #28
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I posted that link and ther is no way a VX3 1.5-5x20 is going to cost $1K unless you don't live in the United States. The VX7 1.5-6X24 will run you that much, but the 1.5-5 starts at $399 and tops out at $600 usually for the illuminated reticle models. Is the VX7 $400 better than the VX3, I don't know and I've never looked through the VX7 scope at all.

It is up to you what you top the rifle with, but I'm in the club lower power is better when hunting up close.
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Old September 17, 2010, 01:31 PM   #29
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yeah, it's 2.5 on the lower end, that's pretty low... and VX7's are built a bit more robustly (not that VX3 are bad). I have a VX3 6.5-20 on my 30.06 also, which I would never consider
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Old September 18, 2010, 11:36 AM   #30
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Get a good high quality fixed power scope.

Good luck with the recoil.
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Old September 19, 2010, 12:12 PM   #31
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Since you already have it on order....

I'm not going to say you did bad, but I think you could have made a better choice.

I know a fella that got one of the MkVs in .460 WM, back in the late 70s. Its a monster, and turned out to not be as satisfactory as he hoped.

I haven't looked much at this cartridge or Weatherbys lately, so if they have made improvements, so much the better.

The orignial Weatherby Mk V stock is a long way from the best shape to handle the heavy recoil of the .460. It will flat just hurt you more with that stock shape than the same round in a rifle of a different stock design. If your new Mk V has something other than the classic Weatherby stock, you will be better off when you shoot it.

Another thing is the cartridge itself. It is the big bad boy on paper, and in the field, however, back in the 70s, when I was looking at these things, it wasn't as well thought of in Africa as the .458 Win Mag. And this was for two basic reasons. One was the class of hunter that showed up with the .460 Wby, often someone who had bought the biggest gun, but didn't take the time effort and expense to learn how to use it. That doesn't sound like your plan, and good for you.

The other reason the .460 Wby wasn't at the top of the list of favorites was that, despite its huge power, there were numerous failures of the round in the usual hunting situations for dangerous game.

And the reason was, actually, the power of the round itself. The .460Wby is the fastest of the big rifles, launching the 500gr slug at almost 2700fps (as generally reported, velocities in reloading manuals top out around 2600 or just under). And it is that speed that gives problems.

Hunting elephants and cape buffalo are done at close range. Much of the time it involves head shots, especially when being charged. There is a velocity range, about 1900-2300fps where the big, round nosed solid bullets used in the heavy calibers will punch through the thick, rounded bone of the skulls and do the job.

Shooting these bullets significantly faster actually has given problems in the game fields, as the higher speed increases the odds of the bullet glancing off the skull, instead of penetrating. When this happens, even a perfect shot can be a total failure. Not a goood thing for the hunter, or his PH.

As I said, its been a few decades, and Weatherby might have corrected their flaws in the meantime, I just don't know. Sorry, I can't give you up to date info, but I assure you my out of date info is solid for the time it was current!

As to longer range (200yd), the .460 factory load shows a 3.3" mean trajectory for 200yds in one of my old books, so actually hitting at that distance is not as difficult as it would be for a big bore of lesser velocity.

I wouldn't go with a variable scope, a fixed power (and a low power at that) is likely to be more durable. $500 or even $1000 saved on a scope is wasted if it packs it in after the 19th shot. Strong, solid mounts are needed. Anything less is false economy.

Good Iron sights are a must. The Mk V I know didn't come with any sights. Does yours? Everything can, and will go wrong, even good scopes can be "offline" when you need them badly. Hunting things that hunt you back means having simple, rugged, fast to use sights available at an instant's notice. Many folks won't use anything else.

I have a little experience with the .458 Win (although only in the US), and most of my shooting it is with cast bullets at approx .45-90/.45-120 power levels. The elephant/cape buffalo loads are not for me, other than to say I've done it.

Now, I haven't said all this to tell you that your going to regret your choice, I hope you don't. I just wanted you to be aware of some things, before you leave for the Dark Continent. I envy you that, because its a trip I'm never going to make. Please keep us updated and informed on how this goes. Pics of the rifle would be nice, too. I'd like to see how it compares to the one I knew nearly 40 years ago.

Good luck, and good hunting!
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
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Old September 19, 2010, 01:52 PM   #32
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44amp wow, you get my vote for the most informative and well written response. I am fully convinced now that for the cape buff I need something else. I m leaning toward the 458 just because it's so ubiquitous and I read used by more than half of the PHs. Can some one recommend a good brand for a new one?

I will however also keep the mark V order as I've always wanted one and as you said, the long range balidtcs are great. I think the VX 7 is going to be it for the 460 for now. These are built like a tank and I'll get a fixed close range for the 458. You only live once and I wanted both a Cape Buffalo kill and a Weatherby for fun at the range. As for kick, I've shot it before with and with out the break. All I have to say about that is "bring it on!!"
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Old September 19, 2010, 06:25 PM   #33
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THIS is the scope I currently have... as you can see from the review, its' up to the task.
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Old September 20, 2010, 12:24 AM   #34
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And sorry I forgot to welcome you before!

Just some more FYI, the .458 had its share of teething troubles back when it first got used in Africa. Bullet jacket failures were frequent enough that a lot of the old time PHs didn't trust it. Joyce Hornady went on safari and got some honest first hand feedback, by not letting folks know he made the bullets until after he found out about what they were (and weren't) doing.

He redesigned the jackets, and from that point on, the .458 became a regular proven performer.

Also, the published velocities (2100fps) for the .458 simply were not usually delivered in the field. Velocities in the 2000fps range were. Plenty enough to work, and work well, but not what was advertised.

The .458 Lott was developed to actually deliver the advertised .458 Win velocities. Essentially a slightly longer .458 Win case with a little more room for powder. Standard .458 Win Mag can be fired in the .458 Lott chamber.

The African Model 70 Winchester is the rifle the .458 came out it, back about 1956 or so, and it set the standard for dangerous game rifles ever since. The claw extractor (Mauser pattern) gives controlled round feed, something important when you are facing something big and nasty at very short range. This became such an entrenched idea that collectors, savy hunters and rifle builders were buying up any pre-64 Win M70s to get the actions to build DGRs on. Thats one reason the price on pre64 M70s has stayed so high.

Also the reason Winchester finally re-introduced the claw extractor on the Model 70 Classic.

About a year ago I looked at a CZ rifle in a shop. I can't recall the model number right now, it was a .375H&H and was a very nice rifle. It had express sights, and a solid feel, as well as very good workmanship. You might want to look at one in .458 Win or .458 Lott.

If you haven't already, entertain yourself with some reading. Ruarke, Bell, and other old time PHs books, and books about them are worth reading. Peter Capstick's "Death in the Long Grass" is a fine start, along with his other books, tells of his years as a PH and cropping officer. A good read, he has a ..unique way of looking at things.

Although dated now, Africa is still Africa, and a lot of the info is, and likely always will be useful.

You haven't mentioned one, do you have a "light rifle" (by african standards) for lesser game? And by lesser, I meant things the size of an elk or a horse!
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
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Old September 20, 2010, 12:47 AM   #35
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I have my old and faithful Remington 700 in a 30.06, which is a very capable gun for smaller game.... but to be honest, when I get to Africa, I want to go for one and only one Cape Buff, get the photograph, try some of the meat and be on my way home... I don't have any desire (nor the money) to rack up several kills while there.
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Old September 20, 2010, 01:16 AM   #36
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cheap practise for the 460 wby

If you want cheap practice in recoil management I offer you this $100 training tool.

Buy a H&R single shot 12 gauge shotgun. Cut the barrel down to 20" then slip on a fiber optic front sight. Now buy a few boxes of cheap slugs. ( you can see where this is going)

Set up a pie plate on a large cardboard target at 30 feet and start shooting. Shoot from the standing then kneeling position. Start with 2 shots in each position and build up to five. Quick shouldering and firing.

No one said it would be fun/ A 5 pound shotgun shooting a 1 oz slug at close to 1300 fps will focus your attention.
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Old September 20, 2010, 03:43 PM   #37
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Here is the link to the CZs
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Old September 20, 2010, 06:44 PM   #38
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I have the CZ-550 in .458 Lott. Recoil is extremely manageable, especially when in a standing position (benching rifles like this seems unnecessarily masochistic to me - you will likely NEVER take a similar shooting position in the field).

I've fired .460 Wby a few times, and I think you may be getting a somewhat exaggerated description of the recoil force here. Yes, it's substantial, and yes the .460 Wby stock is not universally loved, but I never thought of shooting it as an especially difficult or painful experience. Expensive, yes - but painful, not so much.

Were I in your shoes, I'd probably be looking at rifles in .416 Rigby, .416 RUM, .458 Lott class. No reason to consider buying anything chambered for .458 Win Mag, as any rifle chambered in .458 Lott will run through .458 Win Mag rounds swimmingly.

Also, I'm not sure I'd agree that your VX-7 is a suitable sight for a big bore, heavy recoil rifle. For one, none of these are available in a 1x power. If you're actually panning a safari, you want a scope that will allow you to keep both eyes open and not force magnification on one eye and not the other. Maximizing your field of view is essential when hunting things that can kill you!
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Old September 22, 2010, 11:09 PM   #39
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The .460 shouldn't be shot past 100 yards. It doesten matter if you can shoot it moa at 300 yards when on safari. The best test of a dangerous game rifle like a 460 is how fast and accurately can you make repeated hits on a softball size target at 20-25 yards if something doesn't work out as planned. And the 460 is quite a step up from a 416 rigby. The 460 without a break will produce (depending on load) 100-120 ftlbs of recoil. The 416 would have served you just as well truthfully. But I hope the rifle serves you well.
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Old September 23, 2010, 02:20 PM   #40
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I'd love to see some pictures of it when you get it in!
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460 , magnum , mark v , safari , weatherby

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