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Old July 23, 2010, 07:52 AM   #1
Magnum Wheel Man
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Question for the LEO's... would you call this concealed ???

1st off Minnesota offers a permit to carry... not necessarily conceiled, but they really encourage it...

I've been carrying ( on occasion ) a NAA mini in a Gerber Nylon knife sheath, when I want to tuck in my shirt... the knife sheath is plainly visible, but the little gun is completely contained in the sheath, & doesn't throw a gun recognisable print...

my buddy, a modern Harley biker has been looking for a better place to put his double deringer ( on his belt ) rather than stuffing it in a pocket...

... I've been putzing with building my own holsters, so I started last night by removing the big "Gerber" label off my nylon folding knife sheath... next I traced the outline of my mini on several pieces of leather & cut those out & sewed them together ( about the thickess of the gun ) next I cut out & sewed up a piece of leather about the size of my Gerber sheath, dyed it black, & sewed the Gerber label to it... stuffed the "mini" traced out leather into it, & in effect have what looks like a leather Gerber folding knife sheath, doesn't print the gun, & that now holds my mini securely & positioned correctly for easy access ( with the original knife sheath, it was a bit too long, & not stiff enough, that drawing the weapon was not smooth )

my thoughts here are a hidden in plain sight, or "camoflaged" if you will, by making up something that looks like a folding knife sheath, a multi-tool sheath, or a cell phone holster...

again, these should be legal in my state, just currios if anyone see's any issues with states who's laws reuire conceiled carry, if the holster is plainly visible, but camoflaged to look like something else ???

thanks for your opinions, thoughts or suggestions... MAG
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Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; July 23, 2010 at 08:00 AM.
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Old July 23, 2010, 08:03 AM   #2
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I'm not a LEO, but there are already holsters like that on the market for the small Kel-Tecs and the LCP. I don't see why they wouldn't be legal.
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Old July 23, 2010, 08:36 AM   #3
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My understanding is that it’s illegal in some states to carry something which is a gun but does not look like one; perhaps it looks like a cell phone but is a gun.

Now you’re dealing with a holster which is a holster but does not look like one. Whilst it might be technically within the law it might get you hassled, and might be interpreted as faking a gun as something else.

Myself, I’d be leery of it.
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Old July 23, 2010, 10:48 AM   #4
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Taurus TCP comes with one of these PDA style cases. I don't see why it would make any difference whether it's concealed under your clothes, or concealed in a case.

I should add: If such a law exists that says it's OK to hide a gun in your pocket or under your shirt, but not in a PDA case on your belt...well, that's just plain dumb. Who would come up with such an idea, and how would they enforce it? Are they going to start profiling nerds?
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Last edited by stargazer65; July 23, 2010 at 11:05 AM.
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Old July 23, 2010, 12:23 PM   #5
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Definitely concealed.

Open carry requires that the gun be visible and recognizable at a casual glance.

[Edit: I think this one's more appropriate for L&CR. Moving now.]
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Old July 23, 2010, 01:42 PM   #6
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very shaky ground. At one time, a few years back, the ATF classified a holster as an AOW. THe holster made a small gun resemble a pager.

Its very shaky ground, and too much depends on who is doing the interpretation. You might be legal, and right, and still wind up out thousands of $ before it gets settled, if the wrong people are on the case.

Good luck.
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Old July 23, 2010, 01:49 PM   #7
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I just don't understand it. It seems like silliness if they have a law that says you can't keep a gun in a PDA case on your belt, but it's OK to have it in your pocket. Who thinks up these things anyway?
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Old July 23, 2010, 01:57 PM   #8
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I just don't understand it. It seems like silliness if they have a law that says you can't keep a gun in a PDA case on your belt, but it's OK to have it in your pocket. Who thinks up these things anyway?
If you can legally carried concealed, then concealing your gun inside a PDA case is fine as well.

Where people get in trouble is when they're only allowed to carry openly, and they use PDA cases, cellphone holsters, etcetera to try to skirt the law.

So if the OP's Minnesota license permits concealed carry, then his knife sheath/holster is perfectly okay.
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Old July 23, 2010, 02:26 PM   #9
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During the reign of Slick Willie, Galco, and other, wallet type, 'shoot through', holsters were prohibited for sale or transfer.

The Seecamp .32 ACP pistol and the High Standard O/U .22 Mag Deringer wallet holsters come to mind. I'm looking at my Galco (Pheonix, AZ) wallet holster model WAL262B, bought from Wald's Police Supply, Dls,Tx.

Possession of such earns a ride in the back seat of a for real Police car, overnight accomodations, and a baloney sandwich (no mayo).

It is a defense to the court (not the nice LEO on the street) if you bought the 'shoot through', wallet type holster prior to Teflon Willie's Proclimiation. You still can get the ride though. Anyone keep receipts that long?

Just 'cause something is 'legal' does not mean that you won't get the opportunity to prove it.

Whatever you fashon, you might not want it to even look like a 'shoot through' wallet.

No dis, just a suggestion.


Last edited by saltydog452; July 23, 2010 at 02:31 PM.
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Old July 23, 2010, 04:48 PM   #10
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It depends on how the states concealed laws have been interpreted by the courts.

In Virginia a sheathed knife on a belt is NOT concealed as long as it hangs down from the belt.

Have the sheath be parallel to the belt and you can get nabbed for a concealed weapon.

At least one person got nailed for carrying a mini-revolver on a belt buckle.

The judge said it did not appear to be a real gun and thus was concealed from common observation.

At one point a Vienna town policeman tried charging a concealed knife for a sheathed knife plainly visible.

The policeman actually argued from the stand (under the commonwealth's attorneys questioning) that he could see the sheath, but not the blade, so he charged concealed.

Vienna lost the case, but the defendant still had to pay his attorney.

A careful review of applicable case law may answer you question.
The statute law is very unlikely to be detailed enough.
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Old July 23, 2010, 11:43 PM   #11
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From your description, I'd deem that concealed. So long as LEOs in your state concur, I say move forward with it.
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Old July 24, 2010, 03:21 PM   #12
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Doesn't matter

In Minnesota all that matters is people's perception of it. The law absolutely DOESN'T care if it is concealed or open carried. To say concealing is really encouraged is a stretch, public opinion may encourage concealing, but the law is very clear, the open carry is ok, the law cannot encourage concealed, but allow open carry.

I know a number of people who open carry regularly. Some even open carried at the Minnesota Republican Convention. There have also been cases of cops bothering guys open carrying, but that is a different story, a cop ignorant of the law does not mean it is against the law.

So now that it is established that the law doesn't care, all that is left is who you want to conceal it from. Family? Friends? Random people in public? That is a question you have to ask yourself. Are you trying to conceal it from everyday sheep? None of them will notice, most wont even notice a very definite print. Are you trying to conceal from some very observant gun guy friends? They could guess, but that is the most it would be. It also depends how professional your leather work looks. Does it look professional enough that Gerber might sell it?

And most importantly, what are the consequences of being made. Unless you are carrying in a prohibited place( k-12 school, which is obviously not recommended), than the consequences are at worst being asked to leave a business, to as small as slight awkwardness with family.

Since there are no legal issues involved with your holster, its going to be pretty tough for anybody to answer your questions.
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