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Old July 7, 2010, 01:39 AM   #26
Electric Head
Join Date: February 18, 2009
Posts: 81
Hahaha I'll be sure to do my part! Well, if I'm in the mood at the time anyway... Every time I had a go with the range revolvers, as old as they are and with as many millions of bullets that they have had, they are quite accurate (bar the last time, I had a shocker). I find it natural to shoot.

Next time I'll start at the bottom of the RIGHT recipe though.

Thanks Mal!
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Old September 15, 2010, 06:12 PM   #27
Electric Head
Join Date: February 18, 2009
Posts: 81
Ok I've got my 686 and shot my target loads and some Winchester 357 (WOW does that go bang!).

My target loads ended up being 3.0 grains ADI AP70N in Remington 38 special cases with 138 grain BNWC loaded to 33mm COL (to the crimp groove) with Remington small pistol primers.

They were very sooty (first shot turned rifling black) and I ended up with about 10 flakes of powder coming out of each shell after they were shot so I've loaded up 12 of 3.3 grains and 12 of 3.6 grains (book lists 3.8 as max) to see if they burn cleaner and more consistent.

Onto my next problem: I went to reload some 357 stuff, I've verified the book from the ADI data and they even say this about the powder I got for the 357 loads:

AR 2205:

A very fine grained, very fast burning rifle powder suited to .22 Hornet loads but also useful in some Magnum pistol loads. Its burning rate is close to that of IMR 4227.

TYPICAL LOAD: .357 Magnum (10” barrel) with 150 grain jacketed projectile
CHARGE WEIGHT 16.5 grains
VELOCITY 1,583 ft/sec

Now I loaded some with 150 grain wadcutters (hard lead with hard lube coating - ok to 1700fps) and COL was 40.11mm (1.579"). The projectiles are the exact same length as the flat bottom 158 grain SJHP Remington bullets that the load is specifically for.

so my load is 15.4 grains AR 2205, 150 grain flat bottom LWC (18.17mm length), case is Winchester nickel 32.55mm, COL is 40.11mm, primer is remington small rifle bench rest.

So 1.1 grains less than ADI says is a "typical" 357 magnum load, but Quickload is telling me 117.0% case filling and 43569 PSI which exceeds the SAAMI max for 357.

The book and ADI both list 14.5 to 16.0 grains as starting to max for 158 grain JHP and 16.2 to 18.0 grains for 140 grain bullets. Extrapolating this for 150 grains gives 15.45 to 17.1 grains so I should be at the starting load for the bullet weight.

I don't think I'm getting 17% compression, maybe 5% if that, the powder looks like it would just touch the bottom of the bullet when seated.

What is everyone's opinions on this? I don't want to blow up my nice new machine. I also don't want to under-load and cause a detonation OR make them weak as I want to use them for metallic silhouette.

Thank you to those who helped me in this thread previously!
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Old September 15, 2010, 06:51 PM   #28
Electric Head
Join Date: February 18, 2009
Posts: 81
Ok I checked the case volume and got more than what is standard in the quickload setup. Pressure is now 36500 and case filling 108.6%. This seems a lot more like it, however it being a starting load it shouldn't already exceed the max pressure.
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Old September 15, 2010, 08:36 PM   #29
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Join Date: December 1, 2002
Posts: 2,832
"...lo and behold, no COL info DOH!"

Everyone seems to want things to be specific in reloading, including OAL. Fact is, lots of authoritative sources don't inculde OAL simply because it isn't a specific thing, there isn't a clear 'right' or 'wrong.'

Load your choosen bullets to the crimp groove or anywhere else you want them and test them for operation. If they chamber and feed properly or allow the cylinder to rotate, that's as good as it gets. THEN develop your load, beginning with the start charges and working up to book max OR until you experience signs of over pressure; if you get that, back off. That method, and only that method, takes care of any differences in your OAL or everything else the book makers suggest.

Starting at max loads is foolish. Book max and deeply seated handgun bullets may well exceed safe pressures but it will be due to typical chamber pressure for that load in your rig, there won't be any strange or unexpected "pressure spikes" about it.
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Old September 16, 2010, 01:50 AM   #30
Electric Head
Join Date: February 18, 2009
Posts: 81
Thanks for the input wncchester! That issue is all sorted, I have a new issue I posted a couple of posts previous up now relating to loading 357. I'd appreciate your input on that issue too if you want to give some.
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