Progressive presses; manual or auto index?

dlb435 · May 31, 2010, 08:10 AM

I've used both manaul and auto index presses. Over time, I found that I prefer the manual index presses the best. It's much easier to recover from a failure and there is better control of the process. What do you like and why?

MADISON · May 31, 2010, 10:06 AM

Manual or auto index?
To me there is nothing to consider. I prefer AUTO INDEXING.
If you prefer manual indexing you might as well buy a TERRET PRESS.

dmazur · May 31, 2010, 10:12 AM

I prefer the manual indexed 550B, but I have to admit I've never tried one that auto-indexes so this is based on perceptions of what one would be like.

Since I like to "break out" operations after resizing/depriming/repriming, I think I would find the auto-indexing harder to deal with. The 550B lets you just remove the brass, rather than forcing you to cycle it around. Then, after you have a bin of prepped brass, you can index before pulling the handle and just skip station 1.

However, on designs without a toolhead (like the LNL progressive), you might be able to just install only the resizing die and just let the case go around and be collected in a bin. With no other dies installed, the results would be the same. To resume, I imagine you could just omit installing the resizing die, but install all the rest.

I think that I would want auto-indexing on a machine that was more automated. (Case feeder, bullet feeder included.) The 550B just isn't that automatic. Your L hand and R hand are doing something to keep the process running anyway, so it isn't all that tedious to just flick the star wheel before grabbing another case and bullet.

Edit: Even a manually-indexed progressive is quite different from a turret. You have to consider how much is being accomplished with one pull of the handle...

ScottRiqui · May 31, 2010, 10:21 AM

My press is a turret, not a progressive (Lee Classic Turret), but I like the auto-index feature - a lot. And it's not hard to recover from a failure or stoppage - the press indexes on the handle's upstroke, but with the handle in the down position, the turret head can be turned manually.

In fact, this allows you to use the press as a manual-index press without having to even remove the indexing rod - just short-stroke the handle on the upstroke so that the turret head doesn't rotate and you can stay on the same station all day. Of course, removing the indexing rod takes all of about ten seconds anyway.

wncchester · May 31, 2010, 10:23 AM

Progressive presses are auto indexing almost by definition.

So far as I know, only the very good Lee Turret presses have the option of auto-indexing or not.

Anyone wanting to load modest quanities of ammo quickly would do well with the Lee Classic Turret. Anyone wanting large quanities of the same load will do much better with a much more costly progressive.

dmazur · May 31, 2010, 11:10 AM

Not arguing, but one of the really common presses, the Dillon 550B, is not auto-indexing. And it is generally considered a progressive.

I will agree that most progressive presses have that feature. But there's that one exception lurking out there...

mongoose33 · May 31, 2010, 11:18 AM

I think what would define the Dillon as a progressive is the fact that one pull of the handle produces a single round, and one pull of the handle causes multiple operations to occur on different cases at the same time. Indexing has nothing to do with that.

Peter M. Eick · May 31, 2010, 11:40 AM

My pro2000 came with a manual indexing and I made about my first 228,000 rounds that way. I switched over to automatic for the last 30,000 thousand. It is still early to say, but I like the automatic indexing. Just one less thing to have to do so I can focus on making ammo more completely.

Rig Magician · May 31, 2010, 06:09 PM

I just started reloading and went with the LNLAP. I ran it as a single stage at first to get use to it and moved on to All functions after several loads. If you mess up with the LNLAP you can back it up. You just need to be sure you do not double charge your round.
Mark

wncchester · May 31, 2010, 06:26 PM

"the Dillon 550B, is not auto-indexing. And it is generally considered a progressive."

Not arguing, just note that I carefully wrote, "...auto indexing almost by definition...", etc. (emphesis added to increase visibility) Perhaps, if read carefully, my observation might allow for the 550B without me being too badly incorrect?

ScottRiqui · May 31, 2010, 06:42 PM

Progressive presses are so-named because an individual case "progresses" from one station to the next during the process. Compare this to a single-stage where the die and case are fixed, or a turret (where the dies move, but not the case).

The method by which the case actually moves (manual index or auto-index) is purely secondary - both are "progressive".

With a progressive press, multiple cases are being processed at the same time, but that doesn't even necessarily have to be true. You could theoretically have a single-station progressive press (kind of like an upside-down turret press.)

Shoney · May 31, 2010, 07:38 PM

To get back to the original question. I have a couple of single stage presses, a 550, and an LNL AP, and have loaded extensively on a buddies 650.

The auto indexing is by far more convient and faster.

vranasaurus · May 31, 2010, 08:15 PM

Quote:

If you prefer manual indexing you might as well buy a TERRET PRESS.

Not really. A progressive press whether auto or manual indexing produces one round per handle pull (After the shell plate is full) while a turret produces one round every 3-5 pulls of the handle.

Quote:

Edit: Even a manually-indexed progressive is quite different from a turret. You have to consider how much is being accomplished with one pull of the handle...

This pretty much sums it up. A progressive press will size, charge, expand, seat, and crimp with a pull of the handle. A turret press only does one of those things per handle pull.

A turret press is not and will never be a progressive press. An auto indexing turret is still not even close to a progressive. It is really just a single stage that allows you to have all your dies pre set into easily changeable turrets.

Both the RCBS pro 2000 and dillon 550 are manual indexing progressive presses.

Having used both I prefer the auto indexing.

Waldog · June 1, 2010, 12:22 PM

Just something to think about. After researching KABOOM's on the net. I found that 90%+ of pistol KABOOMS occurred on a manually indexing press.

Be aware that this is not the fault of the press but, strictly operator error.

Auto-indexing dramatically reduces the likelihood of a double charge.

medalguy · June 1, 2010, 08:31 PM

I use several Dillon 450 and 550 presses. I prefer the manual index feature, as mentioned already, because it is so easy to recover from any kind of error or damaged piece of brass.

BigJakeJ1s · June 1, 2010, 08:58 PM

The combination of manually indexing, making double or squib loads more likely, and lack of an extra station for a powder check/lockout die to detect such a situation, is the main disadvantage of the 550 or a non-AI Pro-2000.

Correcting mishaps on a progressive has more to do with features like whether the shell plate can be backed up, how easy/hard it is to remove cases and/or dies from the press to clear a problem, disable powder/primer feed, etc. than it does with simply auto or manual indexing.

Andy

May 31, 2010, 08:10 AM	#1
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	Progressive presses; manual or auto index? I've used both manaul and auto index presses. Over time, I found that I prefer the manual index presses the best. It's much easier to recover from a failure and there is better control of the process. What do you like and why?

May 31, 2010, 10:06 AM	#2
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	Manual or auto index Manual or auto index? To me there is nothing to consider. I prefer AUTO INDEXING. If you prefer manual indexing you might as well buy a TERRET PRESS.

May 31, 2010, 10:12 AM	#3
dmazur Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,310	I prefer the manual indexed 550B, but I have to admit I've never tried one that auto-indexes so this is based on perceptions of what one would be like. Since I like to "break out" operations after resizing/depriming/repriming, I think I would find the auto-indexing harder to deal with. The 550B lets you just remove the brass, rather than forcing you to cycle it around. Then, after you have a bin of prepped brass, you can index before pulling the handle and just skip station 1. However, on designs without a toolhead (like the LNL progressive), you might be able to just install only the resizing die and just let the case go around and be collected in a bin. With no other dies installed, the results would be the same. To resume, I imagine you could just omit installing the resizing die, but install all the rest. I think that I would want auto-indexing on a machine that was more automated. (Case feeder, bullet feeder included.) The 550B just isn't that automatic. Your L hand and R hand are doing something to keep the process running anyway, so it isn't all that tedious to just flick the star wheel before grabbing another case and bullet. Edit: Even a manually-indexed progressive is quite different from a turret. You have to consider how much is being accomplished with one pull of the handle... __________________ .30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong

May 31, 2010, 11:10 AM	#6
dmazur Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,310	Not arguing, but one of the really common presses, the Dillon 550B, is not auto-indexing. And it is generally considered a progressive. I will agree that most progressive presses have that feature. But there's that one exception lurking out there... __________________ .30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong

May 31, 2010, 11:40 AM	#8
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	My pro2000 came with a manual indexing and I made about my first 228,000 rounds that way. I switched over to automatic for the last 30,000 thousand. It is still early to say, but I like the automatic indexing. Just one less thing to have to do so I can focus on making ammo more completely. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

May 31, 2010, 10:21 AM	#4
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	My press is a turret, not a progressive (Lee Classic Turret), but I like the auto-index feature - a lot. And it's not hard to recover from a failure or stoppage - the press indexes on the handle's upstroke, but with the handle in the down position, the turret head can be turned manually. In fact, this allows you to use the press as a manual-index press without having to even remove the indexing rod - just short-stroke the handle on the upstroke so that the turret head doesn't rotate and you can stay on the same station all day. Of course, removing the indexing rod takes all of about ten seconds anyway.

May 31, 2010, 10:23 AM	#5
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	Progressive presses are auto indexing almost by definition. So far as I know, only the very good Lee Turret presses have the option of auto-indexing or not. Anyone wanting to load modest quanities of ammo quickly would do well with the Lee Classic Turret. Anyone wanting large quanities of the same load will do much better with a much more costly progressive.

May 31, 2010, 11:18 AM	#7
mongoose33 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 228	I think what would define the Dillon as a progressive is the fact that one pull of the handle produces a single round, and one pull of the handle causes multiple operations to occur on different cases at the same time. Indexing has nothing to do with that.

May 31, 2010, 06:09 PM	#9
Rig Magician Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Pineville, La. Posts: 64	LNLAP I just started reloading and went with the LNLAP. I ran it as a single stage at first to get use to it and moved on to All functions after several loads. If you mess up with the LNLAP you can back it up. You just need to be sure you do not double charge your round. Mark

May 31, 2010, 06:26 PM	#10
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"the Dillon 550B, is not auto-indexing. And it is generally considered a progressive." Not arguing, just note that I carefully wrote, "...auto indexing almost by definition...", etc. (emphesis added to increase visibility) Perhaps, if read carefully, my observation might allow for the 550B without me being too badly incorrect?

May 31, 2010, 06:42 PM	#11
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	Progressive presses are so-named because an individual case "progresses" from one station to the next during the process. Compare this to a single-stage where the die and case are fixed, or a turret (where the dies move, but not the case). The method by which the case actually moves (manual index or auto-index) is purely secondary - both are "progressive". With a progressive press, multiple cases are being processed at the same time, but that doesn't even necessarily have to be true. You could theoretically have a single-station progressive press (kind of like an upside-down turret press.)

May 31, 2010, 07:38 PM	#12
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	To get back to the original question. I have a couple of single stage presses, a 550, and an LNL AP, and have loaded extensively on a buddies 650. The auto indexing is by far more convient and faster. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

June 1, 2010, 12:22 PM	#14
Waldog Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2007 Location: SOCAL Posts: 359	Just something to think about. After researching KABOOM's on the net. I found that 90%+ of pistol KABOOMS occurred on a manually indexing press. Be aware that this is not the fault of the press but, strictly operator error. Auto-indexing dramatically reduces the likelihood of a double charge. __________________ I am the Christian Conservative that CNN warned you about!! “Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy.” Winston Churchill

June 1, 2010, 08:31 PM	#15
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	I use several Dillon 450 and 550 presses. I prefer the manual index feature, as mentioned already, because it is so easy to recover from any kind of error or damaged piece of brass.

June 1, 2010, 08:58 PM	#16
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	The combination of manually indexing, making double or squib loads more likely, and lack of an extra station for a powder check/lockout die to detect such a situation, is the main disadvantage of the 550 or a non-AI Pro-2000. Correcting mishaps on a progressive has more to do with features like whether the shell plate can be backed up, how easy/hard it is to remove cases and/or dies from the press to clear a problem, disable powder/primer feed, etc. than it does with simply auto or manual indexing. Andy

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