What is considered good shooting?

tristar viper · January 17, 2010, 02:01 PM

I have a Glock 19, and I just wondered what would be considered good shooting at 25-35 feet? How big should the groups be if you're shooting well? 1 inch? 2 inch? What's the standard to go by?

AK103K · January 17, 2010, 02:16 PM

I suppose it depends on how your shooting and what your trying to accomplish. Are you "target" shooting, or shooting a little more realistically?

Either way, I'd say you have to decide for yourself if it suits you. If it doesnt, work a little harder at it till it does. A lot of people seem to have different ideas as what is important and what matters when it comes to accuracy, and they may or may not be realistic, or fit you or your needs.

MrBorland · January 17, 2010, 02:22 PM

"Good" is hitting what you're aiming at, of course, which isn't quite as glib an answer as I had always thought it was.

For example, for action- or SD-type shooting, you're aiming at the CoM, so good is placing all shots in CoM, but doing it quickly, on demand, and under different conditions.

For target shooting, you're aiming at the x-ring on a bullseye, so "good" is putting all your shots there (as opposed to "merely" the 8-ring).

Anyhow, when this question comes up, I suspect it's being asked in the context of "if a good shooter simply picks his (or her) gun up and shoots a 5-shot group under no time pressure, how big would the group be?"

My standard answer is that a good (but not excellent) shooter would shoot an honest (no "fliers") and consistent 3" group at 25 yards. That's standing, shooting unsupported. A DA revolver shooter ought to be able to do this shooting double action too.

A very good shooter would be consistently shooting 2.5" or less groups. 5-shot 25 yard groups consistently under 2" puts you firmly in the outstanding category, IMO.

At 25-30 feet, even a good shooter would shoot a 1" group. You'd need to extend the range a bit to really distinguish the really good shooters.

tristar viper · January 17, 2010, 02:23 PM

well I want to know how well some of the best shooters on here group their shots from that distance.
I just do target shooting, 4 to 6 seconds between shots I'd say, trying to do the best I can. This Glock is new to me, so I'm still feeling it out somewhat. It seems to get a little more consistent each time out though.
I can group at 2.5 inches from 35 feet. Is that good bad, or average? It's normally better than my buddies can do when we're all shooting pistols, but today my one damn buddy outshot me with MY OWN LCR, a gun he had never shot before.....

michael t · January 17, 2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

I suppose it depends on how your shooting and what your trying to accomplish. Are you "target" shooting, or shooting a little more realistically?

I agree Target shooting small group Quick fire SD shooting I a happy with larger group

tristar viper · January 17, 2010, 02:29 PM

Problem is, the range I go to is limited to a length of 35 feet.....that's it.

MrBorland · January 17, 2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Problem is, the range I go to is limited to a length of 35 feet.....that's it.

If you want to be able to shoot nice tight little groups, there's no reason why you couldn't practice at 35 feet - that's about the distance used in the olympics, after all. Just focus on the fundamentals and use a real target, rather than some silhouette. For 35 feet, I'd print out some B-2 targets from the link below.

http://dotclue.org/targets

bcrash15 · January 17, 2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBorland

My standard answer is that a good (but not excellent) shooter would shoot an honest (no "fliers") and consistent 3" group at 25 yards. That's standing, shooting unsupported. A DA revolver shooter ought to be able to do this shooting double action too.

A very good shooter would be consistently shooting 2.5" or less groups. 5-shot 25 yard groups consistently under 2" puts you firmly in the outstanding category, IMO.

The more you shoot, I think the more you realize how much your first advice really applies, "good is hitting what you are shooting at." Now, no offense, but I just want to clarify you mean 25 yards not 25 feet. There was a discussion several months ago about this. 25 yards is the same distance on a regulation basketball court if you were standing on one free throw line shooting at a target at the baseline under the basket on the opposite end of the court. On official NRA 25-yard pistol targets, a 3" group at that range would keep everything within the 10 ring (so that is pretty darn good shooting). I can see this maybe more so with an 8" revolver, but I don't think the compact or service pistol crowd has too much of a chance at that group.

MrBorland · January 17, 2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Now, no offense, but I just want to clarify you mean 25 yards not 25 feet.

On official NRA 25-yard pistol targets, a 3" group at that range would keep everything within the 10 ring (so that is pretty darn good shooting). I can see this maybe more so with an 8" revolver, but I don't think the compact or service pistol crowd has too much of a chance at that group.

Yep, I meant 25 yards...and with a service-sized pistol/revolver.

Yes, the 10-ring on a B-16 is just under 3". And yes, getting all 5 shots hitting the 10-ring would be pretty darn good shooting, but that's also consistently releasing the shot just as your POA was exactly the center of the bull and having your sights perfectly adjusted, which is a much higher standard than simply shooting a 3" group.

OldShooter · January 17, 2010, 03:50 PM

I went to a conventional pistol bullseye competition. Good shooting there was what every one else was doing.

darkgael · January 17, 2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

I just do target shooting, 4 to 6 seconds between shots I'd say, trying to do the best I can. This Glock is new to me, so I'm still feeling it out somewhat. It seems to get a little more consistent each time out though.

That is good practice. If you are interested in "Bullseye"/Conventional pistol shooting, all shooting is done one handed. That is how you should practice. Glocks are reliable fairly accurate service type pistols. They are not, however, "target" pistols. Some of the shooting that is possible with a tuned target gun is not going to happen with the Glock. If you can keep them all in the black on a B-2 or a B-3 50 ft target, you'd be doing extremely well.
Note: Olympic pistol shooting is done at two distances - 25 meters and 50 meters.
Note; The B-16 25 yard slow fire target has a 10 ring that is 1.5 inches in diameter.
The 50 yard slow fire 10 ring is 3.36 inches.

bcrash15 · January 17, 2010, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBorland

Yep, I meant 25 yards...and with a service-sized pistol/revolver.

Fair enough, I'm not one to doubt just wanted to make sure. I recognize my skills are not at the level yet, but I know it is possible. I was referencing a B-8 target, which is probably not the right one for this comparison because it's for timed stages. I think I was confused in semantics a bit, thinking by "good shooting" the OP meant "doing good" meaning they are shooting decently for their intended use and amount of experience rather than a "good shooter" as in above average. In the former case, I'd expect an average or moderately experienced shooter to basically be "shooting the black out" out of the appropriate range target, more like this.

The rest will come with practice.

Happy shooting!

MrBorland · January 17, 2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Note: Olympic pistol shooting is done at two distances - 25 meters and 50 meters.

I was thinking of olympic 10m air pistol/rifle.

Quote:

Note; The B-16 25 yard slow fire target has a 10 ring that is 1.5 inches in diameter

Sorry if I got it wrong. I admit I don't shoot bullseye (would love to). When I print out a B-16 from that link I pasted, the 10-ring it 2.75". The X-ring is 1.75". If the official B-16 10-ring is actually 1.5", the link's pretty much useless.

Mello2u · January 17, 2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

tristar viper

What is considered good shooting?
I have a Glock 19, and I just wondered what would be considered good shooting at 25-35 feet? How big should the groups be if you're shooting well? 1 inch? 2 inch? What's the standard to go by?

I am not a target shooter who is trying to take all the time in the world to make the smallest group of holes in the target.

When I practice I draw from a holster, starting at a random signal and time how long it takes me to put two shots center of mass at 7 yards and 10 yards.

Timing from the start signal and ending at the second shot, allow two seconds.

If you can cover your group with your hand you doing good. If it is a lot smaller, speed up. If it is larger slow down.

I practice to balance speed and accuracy. I practice defensive shooting.

darkgael · January 18, 2010, 03:14 AM

MBorland: That ten ring size thing is not a mistake that you made if you measured the target from that dotclue link. They have the wrong target as the B-16. What they are callling the B-16 is actually the B-6.
The B-16 has scoring rings in the bull itself that run from 7 to 10. The B-6 runs 8-9-10.
All the NRA conventional pistol bulls, if viewed at the correct distance, subtend the same MOA and will appear to be the same size.
Pete

MrBorland · January 18, 2010, 10:19 AM

Thanks for the heads-up, Pete. Good to know.

Sorry for the target size confusion.

January 17, 2010, 03:50 PM	#10
OldShooter Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 846	Good Shooting I went to a conventional pistol bullseye competition. Good shooting there was what every one else was doing.

January 18, 2010, 03:14 AM	#15
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	target MBorland: That ten ring size thing is not a mistake that you made if you measured the target from that dotclue link. They have the wrong target as the B-16. What they are callling the B-16 is actually the B-6. The B-16 has scoring rings in the bull itself that run from 7 to 10. The B-6 runs 8-9-10. All the NRA conventional pistol bulls, if viewed at the correct distance, subtend the same MOA and will appear to be the same size. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

January 17, 2010, 02:01 PM	#1
tristar viper Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 889	What is considered good shooting? I have a Glock 19, and I just wondered what would be considered good shooting at 25-35 feet? How big should the groups be if you're shooting well? 1 inch? 2 inch? What's the standard to go by?

January 17, 2010, 02:16 PM	#2
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	I suppose it depends on how your shooting and what your trying to accomplish. Are you "target" shooting, or shooting a little more realistically? Either way, I'd say you have to decide for yourself if it suits you. If it doesnt, work a little harder at it till it does. A lot of people seem to have different ideas as what is important and what matters when it comes to accuracy, and they may or may not be realistic, or fit you or your needs.

January 17, 2010, 02:22 PM	#3
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	"Good" is hitting what you're aiming at, of course, which isn't quite as glib an answer as I had always thought it was. For example, for action- or SD-type shooting, you're aiming at the CoM, so good is placing all shots in CoM, but doing it quickly, on demand, and under different conditions. For target shooting, you're aiming at the x-ring on a bullseye, so "good" is putting all your shots there (as opposed to "merely" the 8-ring). Anyhow, when this question comes up, I suspect it's being asked in the context of "if a good shooter simply picks his (or her) gun up and shoots a 5-shot group under no time pressure, how big would the group be?" My standard answer is that a good (but not excellent) shooter would shoot an honest (no "fliers") and consistent 3" group at 25 yards. That's standing, shooting unsupported. A DA revolver shooter ought to be able to do this shooting double action too. A very good shooter would be consistently shooting 2.5" or less groups. 5-shot 25 yard groups consistently under 2" puts you firmly in the outstanding category, IMO. At 25-30 feet, even a good shooter would shoot a 1" group. You'd need to extend the range a bit to really distinguish the really good shooters.

January 17, 2010, 02:23 PM	#4
tristar viper Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 889	well I want to know how well some of the best shooters on here group their shots from that distance. I just do target shooting, 4 to 6 seconds between shots I'd say, trying to do the best I can. This Glock is new to me, so I'm still feeling it out somewhat. It seems to get a little more consistent each time out though. I can group at 2.5 inches from 35 feet. Is that good bad, or average? It's normally better than my buddies can do when we're all shooting pistols, but today my one damn buddy outshot me with MY OWN LCR, a gun he had never shot before.....

January 17, 2010, 02:29 PM	#6
tristar viper Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 889	Problem is, the range I go to is limited to a length of 35 feet.....that's it.

January 18, 2010, 10:19 AM	#16
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	Thanks for the heads-up, Pete. Good to know. Sorry for the target size confusion.