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Old January 8, 2010, 12:44 PM   #1
The Great Mahoo
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Letter to congress for campus carry?

I have recently decided to go back to school for some post-graduate training. Up until now, I never really gave this issue much of a thought, since when I was in college I was underage to posess a handgun anyway. Now, after having been carrying for the last 5 years, I find myself shocked that I am suddenly not trusted as a responsible member of society whenever I walk onto campus grounds. It seems silly that I, as well as countless others, are forced to disarm for sensless reasons when we are legally allowed that gun nearly anywhere else.

At the very least, it is an extreme inconvenience, since I cannot have my firearm in my possession when going to campus, which means I cannot have it anywhere else I may go if I am in the same trip.

So my question is this:
Can anyone point me to any organization actively trying to pass state, or federal, laws for abolishing these institutions from ignoring our right to carry? I am planning on writing my local representative, as well as state rep, but we all know there is strength in numbers. I would appreciate anyone's support in this as well, especially those of you also in Pennsylvania.

“There are three reasons to own a gun. To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face.” - Krusty the Clown
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Old January 8, 2010, 02:43 PM   #2
Al Norris
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You might want to check out SCCC - Students for Concealed Campus Carry.
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Old January 8, 2010, 11:04 PM   #3
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A letter to congress won't do much good, the restrictions are state and college. I do not know specific PA groups but SCCC is a good place to start.
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Old January 10, 2010, 10:22 AM   #4
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I'm in the middle of a similar situation myself in that I'm trying to get permission to carry on a military installation. I seem to have support from my congressman and one senator (haven't heard from the other yet), and am awaiting word from the DOD as requested by my senator. We'll see.

As for your campus, earlier suggestions seem good to me. Might want to discuss with campus leadership, whoever that might be (college president?).

If you are successful, I would appreciate a reply back.

Good luck.
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Old January 10, 2010, 11:48 AM   #5
Glenn E. Meyer
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Being in the area - my evaluation is:

1. Letters to presidents, etc. are useless. No president is going to accept what they think is an increased liability to their school. You will go into a file of threats, most likely.

2. Congress is irrelevant - have you noticed who has the majorities? Also, federal legislation to allow carry is not going to pass in this dimension.

3. There are several major factors against campus carry:

a. The majority of faculty are not friendly to guns.

b. Mandating carry being allowed on campus - esp. if they are private is strongly opposed by businesses. Even 'conservative' businessmen can oppose carry as they think it is a liability issue and economic elites are reluctant to have power in the hands of workers. They couch this in terms of property rights but that's just sham for the liabilty issue and the lawyers.

c. There is significant fear that students are a special population that is more of a risk than the usual CCW population. Youth until 25 or 26 are not that responsible in many cases. Dorms are a hotbed of substance abuse, immature behaviors and arguments. Nor could one trust that guns would be secured in the dorms.

Off campus, mature adult returning students are a different game but the dorm kid is seen as a risk even by progun college faculty and administrators.

d. The training issue - some want college carry and there is wave of support for it after a rampage. That implies that the carrier will be able to intervene in a high intensity gun fight. But does it imply a responsibility to do such - that issue is unresolved. If you do postulate that you will be a deterrent to a rampage - folks might argue that you need training. It is feared that you might kill an innocent.

I've been told that if I carried, folks might trust me, but not some of the vocal gun advocates who have little practical training. Seen as blowhards to be blunt. Now you might argue that even if you kill one innocent by accident, you save many. However, the psychology of moral evaluation has found a basic principle that to take an innocent life even to save more innocents is seen as unacceptable. Been demonstrated many times as an emotional basis which is hard to overcome. So if you get up and say you want to carry - you need to be able to point to training. So who decides that? Complicated issue is it not - if you push the rampage issue. A rampage is not just a altercation with a mugging.

There are two possibilities.

1. A gun friendly state legislature might pass a bill. Be warned that even 'conservative' legislators will follow the money from the business interests. Happened in TX - so you need a very strong progun effort.

2. One might argue for staff/faculty carry - this will short change students but might work as a first step.

Sorry not to be positive but we get this kind of post quite a bit and suggestions for action that won't have much impact.

Also, sometimes if I say this - I get outrage from a young student. However, expressions of outrage are just the counterproductive example that is a negative.

I've made the carry point on campus - gets nowhere.
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Old January 10, 2010, 12:23 PM   #6
Uncle Buck
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I like the way you summed it up. Very interesting reading about what some of the opposition is thinking. Most of the time the people advocating campus carry just jump around and yell and scream and make no real point, therefore I give up reading the threads. Your points are well defined and actually make a lot of sense.

Thank you.
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Old January 10, 2010, 10:22 PM   #7
The Great Mahoo
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Thank you, Glenn, for your very interesting and intelligent post.

I can understand why carrying on campus is so distrusted, and do not fully support all points made in favor of changing it. I don't think granting the right to encourage people to actively engage a "rampager" would be worth while, but I do not agree with the idea of not being able to protect oneself from far more common (albiet still unlikely) occurance [muggings, etc.] is a bad idea. Sure, campus itself is generally a safe place, but being prohibited there generally results in not having my protection elsewhere I may find myself in the course of the day.

Typical students with guns, especially kept in the dorms, I do see as a huge liability, so I will agree on that. However, adult students who've returned to school after having a license to carry for years is a different situation.

I suppose some letters to my state officials are in order, but will probably only result in giving me peace of mind to know i have tried.

Thanks for the discussion.
“There are three reasons to own a gun. To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face.” - Krusty the Clown
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Old January 10, 2010, 10:35 PM   #8
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HB 32 Concealed handguns; possession by faculty members at state institutions of higher education. Allows full-time faculty members of state institutions of higher education who possess a valid Virginia concealed handgun permit to carry a concealed handgun on campus.
This was introduced for this years session in VA. I wrote the Rep who submitted the bill and asked him to amend it to apply to all full-time staff. I don't know if even in the Professor only version it will pass, and VA does have a pretty gun-rights friendly legislature. I know one allowing qualified students to be allowed to carry would have little chance. The reputation of undergraduate students at public colleges is so bad (and really has been since colleges began I think, read any old novel that includes college stays and things have not changed much, women, drink, and gambling have a long history) it is very difficult for such a bill to get much traction. In the last three years, three of my son's suite mates have been arrested on felony and serious misdemeanor charges and expelled. 25% of the population (granted very small sample) per year is pretty bad.
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Old January 11, 2010, 02:34 PM   #9
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This is one we need to get behind as WE may want to carry there next month or fall..

It always amazes me regarding RKBA issues how little interest can be generated within shooters to support changes (restoration) . Here in MI we have proposed laws to remove CEZs and one cannot even get shooters to talk with legislators about the issue.????

I have belonged to a couple of clubs and have suggested "Legislators Day" at the range. Invite ALL elected for that area-US, State, county etc. Make em say NO I dont shoot. When they come out let em shoot handgun, trap etc. Supply gune and ammo. Write it up w/ local newspaper. Actually one can call it Legislative/Media Day and invite media also. Point out to em difference bet atuomatic and autoloading.

Never could generate any interest esp w/ shotgun shooters which the one club was, almost entirely. I no longer belong. I guess I didnt belong in the first place.
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