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Old December 27, 2009, 11:25 PM   #1
Join Date: November 6, 2005
Location: Cooks Mills Illinois,,,,Not even close to Chicago
Posts: 47
What is it?...... HELP

I got these at a sale the first one has pat Nov 17, 08 pats pending on the bottom of the grip frame, also has serial number 63961 on trigger guard it is a 38 S&W has a 2 1/2" barrel... next one reads national arms co NY USA on the barrel rib, serial number on bottom of grip frame 11214 barrel is 3 1/4" it is also a 38 S&W need age and value.....Thanks

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Old December 28, 2009, 08:12 PM   #2
Join Date: November 6, 2005
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Still don't know what the heck these are.......
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Old December 28, 2009, 10:51 PM   #3
Mike Irwin
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The first one is a Harrington and Richardson.

The second one is a National Arms.

I'd say the grips on the H&R make it fairly late in production. The Nat. Arms one, who knows...

As for what they are, well, they're pocket revolvers. Just about everyone and their uncle made both hammer and hammerless pocket revolvers for .32 and .38 S&W starting in the late 1870s or so and ending with World War II.

These guns were relatively cheap, in most cases fairly well made (some were crap, others were very good quality), were easy to conceal, and with the .38, fired a respectable cartridge.

Few, if any, of these guns have much value because they were made literally in the millions.
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Old December 29, 2009, 06:27 PM   #4
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Max value, maybe about $150.00 depending on barrel condition. .38 S&W is not a .38 S&W Special. It has a shorter, wider case and shot a 150 or so grain bullet atop a black powder load when first brought out, and a weak smokeless load since some of the revolvers were not the best even when new.

These are the guns you would find in the bedside table to protect Gramps and Gram-ma in the days of old. Also, crooks found them convenient to carry as they were small and easily hidden.

The top break design fell out of favor after the turn of the century.

If they are in good condition, you might be able to sell them to SASS people.

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Old December 30, 2009, 01:22 AM   #5
Join Date: November 6, 2005
Location: Cooks Mills Illinois,,,,Not even close to Chicago
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Thanks so much for your help, I will never shoot them just display them.
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Old December 30, 2009, 01:47 AM   #6
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first one (I think) is a Hopkins and Allen. From the grips.. Im sure Ill be corrected if im wronge the other again Im just thinking. Is a Ivery johnson. So please everyone dont jump on me if Im wronge..
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Old December 30, 2009, 06:30 AM   #7
Harley Nolden
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National Arms Co
Brooklyn New York
1865 1870
The company was purchased by Colt in 1870

Harrington & Richardson, Inc.
Hermon Street Worcester Massachusetts
est. 1877 1894
Harrington & Richardson, Inc.
Park Avenue Worcester Massachusetts

Mr Harley
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Old January 3, 2010, 08:23 PM   #8
Join Date: September 16, 2009
Location: arizona
Posts: 34

Hi there Millbilly..... As you already know the first pic is a H&R Breaktop/Auto-Eject Hammerless. The second one, US, has been taken apart by someone who shouldn't have. The little "hook" sticking out from the hinge just forward of the trigger should be up in the barrel/frame section to activate the "auto-eject" As to not wanting to fire them,may I ask: why not? Have a gun smith who is into these little gems check them out first & if they say OK, light 'em up. I own several of these oldies and enjoy shooting them. The still make reduced load ammo for them I believe from Remington. Honest, they weren't made to hang on a wall.
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