S&W PC 460 Recall

**JohnKSa** · October 19, 2009, 03:07 PM

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...ectionId=10506

Smith & Wesson has received four (4) reports of barrel failures involving its Performance Center Model 460 revolvers. These barrels were manufactured by an outside supplier. Our investigation has revealed that the quality of steel in some of these barrels did not meet the performance requirements for these firearms and may have contributed to failure of the barrel.

3StrikesNC · October 19, 2009, 07:05 PM

Oh God, not another one!

Scared the crap out me! At least my serial number is not included in the recall, this time.....

Looks like Smith is getting pretty good with the ole' punch mark....

So where does one buy an affordabl, quality firearm these days ?

ChiefMuzz · October 20, 2009, 01:17 PM

Is it me or does it seem ludicrous that the performance center line of revolvers is outsourced. Sad.

Maromero · October 20, 2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Is it me or does it seem ludicrous that the performance center line of revolvers is outsourced. Sad.

To who?

ChiefMuzz · October 20, 2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

These barrels were manufactured by an outside supplier.

I believe that means that pieces of the high end guns in S&W's line are made by "other suppliers". Correct me if I am misunderstanding this or is this a common thing?

springfieldbob · October 20, 2009, 09:44 PM

I have read were M&P 15 rifles are put together at the factory from parts all made else where.

carguychris · October 28, 2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

I believe that means that pieces of the high end guns in S&W's line are made by "other suppliers".

I have a hunch that the "other supplier" may be Thompson/Center, which was purchased by S&W in 2007. One of the major reasons for the acquisition was reportedly T/C's expertise at making rifle barrels. Since the 460XVR is ballistically a lot like a small rifle, it wouldn't surprise me if S&W farmed out the barrels to T/C.

Maromero · October 28, 2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

I have a hunch that the "other supplier" may be Thompson/Center

I really don't have a clue. Is that good?

Paochow · October 31, 2009, 11:43 AM

Probably explains why my PC 460 has been backordered so long...

fprefect · November 8, 2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Is it me or does it seem ludicrous that the performance center line of revolvers is outsourced. Sad.

Many exotic metals(and are we even certain it was a metal?) and alloys required special and very expensive equipment to only produce the material, much less machine it. Before knowing more about what kind of material was being used I'm going to hold on to my stones awaiting further evidence and claifications.

F. Prefect

ChiefMuzz · November 8, 2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Many exotic metals(and are we even certain it was a metal?) and alloys required special and very expensive equipment to only produce the material, much less machine it. Before knowing more about what kind of material was being used I'm going to hold on to my stones awaiting further evidence and claifications.

If you read the original post it says "the steel used..." So I imagine it isn't some hard to machine exotic metal. No stones thrown here....just curious and shocked at the same time.

fprefect · November 9, 2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

If you read the original post it says "the steel used..." So I imagine it isn't some hard to machine exotic metal. No stones thrown here....just curious and shocked at the same time

Understood, I obviously failed to read the post thoroughly. I would agree that any company involved in the manufacturing of firearms for as long as S&W "should" understand the properties of almost all types of steel and also find in unusual that a company with such a reputation would farm out the manufacturing of something as critical to an "ultra high perfermance" firearm as it's barrel, although there are some metals out there being referred to as steel that when alloyed with other metals such as titanium do not have the physical properties "normally associated" with steel.

F. Prefect

Paochow · December 19, 2009, 03:49 PM

As per the website, the barrel is a
•Lothar-Walther Custom German Rifle Barrel

On a side note I finally got mine today, although I ended up cancelling my order with my dealer and buying one off gunbroker. Very nice gun, I'm taking it out to shoot tomorrow.

Millbilly · December 22, 2009, 01:27 AM

I have one of the first PC 460 Smiths ......Mine was recalled about 3 years ago and they replaced the barrel.....I have put about 200-300 rounds through mine and it is an awsome shooter.....I have taken 5 deer with it. The most extreme distance was about 175 yards head on....deer went down like he was run over by a truck.....I can't say any thing bad about my 460....The best deer hand gun you can buy.....

Paochow · December 22, 2009, 07:26 AM

I shot my 460 PC on Saturday. Even with just iron sights I was able to easily keep a few cylinders on a 18" circle at 200yds. Can't wait to get a scope on it.

Millbilly · December 27, 2009, 11:34 PM

watch out for flame when you shoot your 460.......

mwmjones · December 28, 2009, 06:57 PM

WOW what about the 500 S&W?

Millbilly · December 28, 2009, 08:18 PM

That flash was with my 460 PC 10 1/2" My friend was taking pics and just got lucky by catching the flash......in the day light.....

mellowthunder · January 5, 2010, 04:43 AM

Have been wavering between FAs .454 Casull or Smiths PC .460 . Gotta admit this pushes me a little more to the 83.
And carguychris, love your quote by 'a man with no name'. I assume you know his name was actually Tuco Ramirez? (Eli Wallach) My favorite was "I like big, fat men like you. When they fall down, they make a lotta noise. And sometimes, they never get up."

Danielcan · January 17, 2010, 12:09 AM

blondie said it to tuco

FrankenMauser · January 17, 2010, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Many exotic metals(and are we even certain it was a metal?) and alloys required special and very expensive equipment to only produce the material, much less machine it. Before knowing more about what kind of material was being used I'm going to hold on to my stones awaiting further evidence and claifications.

Quote:

If you read the original post it says "the steel used..." So I imagine it isn't some hard to machine exotic metal.

Quote:

Understood, I obviously failed to read the post thoroughly. I would agree that any company involved in the manufacturing of firearms for as long as S&W "should" understand the properties of almost all types of steel and also find in unusual that a company with such a reputation would farm out the manufacturing of something as critical to an "ultra high perfermance" firearm as it's barrel, although there are some metals out there being referred to as steel that when alloyed with other metals such as titanium do not have the physical properties "normally associated" with steel.

Quote:

As per the website, the barrel is a
•Lothar-Walther Custom German Rifle Barrel

People lie. Companies lie. "Quality of Steel" could mean "quality of workmanship", "quality of machining", or "we accidentally put .44 caliber barrels on them".

You never know... It may have been as simple as a dimensional error. Either Walther, or S&W could be the guilty party. Sometimes it is an amazingly "innocent" mistake that causes a huge problem.

Now, where did I put that decimal point?....

Perhaps it could even be something along the lines of a manufacturing change that failed to consider previously calculated figures. Maybe the original models had a tighter ball end in the cylinder, and a loose barrel; but the newer models have a loose ball end, and a tighter barrel; while the newest models went back to the old design. With certain loads, the 'mid-production' ends up being a bad combination...

woodguru · September 20, 2010, 11:06 AM

Outsourcing, there were a few responses that seemed to want to make an automatic assumption that outsourcing is a downgrade.

Remington specified and ordered barrels from Shilen for it's 504 .22's, I (after much teeth pulling) got Remington to supply me with some serial number ranges that had these barrels and had a distributor go through over a hundred rifles to find me one. Remingtom oursourced barrels to attain high standards for a very nicely made rifle. The 504's I've had are tack drivers.

Perhaps these outsourced barrels were an attempt to improve quality, not loosen it.

TenRing · September 27, 2010, 07:49 PM

Outsourcing is supposed to allow a company to provide a higher quality product at lower cost by taking advantage of the capabilities of other companies. That way, they don't have to spend time and money to develop everything themselves and they can focus on what they do best. It's not necessarily a bad thing if done correctly.

October 19, 2009, 03:07 PM	#1
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,462	S&W PC 460 Recall http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...ectionId=10506 Smith & Wesson has received four (4) reports of barrel failures involving its Performance Center Model 460 revolvers. These barrels were manufactured by an outside supplier. Our investigation has revealed that the quality of steel in some of these barrels did not meet the performance requirements for these firearms and may have contributed to failure of the barrel. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

October 20, 2009, 09:44 PM	#6
springfieldbob Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Posts: 17	M&P rifles I have read were M&P 15 rifles are put together at the factory from parts all made else where.

December 28, 2009, 06:57 PM	#17
mwmjones Member Join Date: December 4, 2001 Posts: 77	WOW what about the 500 S&W? WOW what about the 500 S&W?

September 20, 2010, 11:06 AM	#22
woodguru Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2010 Location: Placerville, Ca Posts: 589	Outsourcing, there were a few responses that seemed to want to make an automatic assumption that outsourcing is a downgrade. Remington specified and ordered barrels from Shilen for it's 504 .22's, I (after much teeth pulling) got Remington to supply me with some serial number ranges that had these barrels and had a distributor go through over a hundred rifles to find me one. Remingtom oursourced barrels to attain high standards for a very nicely made rifle. The 504's I've had are tack drivers. Perhaps these outsourced barrels were an attempt to improve quality, not loosen it. __________________ Fiction is harder to write than the truth, fiction has to make sense, the truth can be unbelievable.

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October 19, 2009, 07:05 PM	#2
3StrikesNC Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: in a house Posts: 473	Oh God, not another one! Scared the crap out me! At least my serial number is not included in the recall, this time..... Looks like Smith is getting pretty good with the ole' punch mark.... So where does one buy an affordabl, quality firearm these days ?

October 20, 2009, 01:17 PM	#3
ChiefMuzz Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2009 Posts: 109	Is it me or does it seem ludicrous that the performance center line of revolvers is outsourced. Sad.

October 31, 2009, 11:43 AM	#9
Paochow Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2000 Location: Midwest Posts: 277	Probably explains why my PC 460 has been backordered so long...

December 19, 2009, 03:49 PM	#13
Paochow Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2000 Location: Midwest Posts: 277	As per the website, the barrel is a •Lothar-Walther Custom German Rifle Barrel On a side note I finally got mine today, although I ended up cancelling my order with my dealer and buying one off gunbroker. Very nice gun, I'm taking it out to shoot tomorrow.

December 22, 2009, 01:27 AM	#14
Millbilly Member Join Date: November 6, 2005 Location: Cooks Mills Illinois,,,,Not even close to Chicago Posts: 47	I have one of the first PC 460 Smiths ......Mine was recalled about 3 years ago and they replaced the barrel.....I have put about 200-300 rounds through mine and it is an awsome shooter.....I have taken 5 deer with it. The most extreme distance was about 175 yards head on....deer went down like he was run over by a truck.....I can't say any thing bad about my 460....The best deer hand gun you can buy.....

December 22, 2009, 07:26 AM	#15
Paochow Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2000 Location: Midwest Posts: 277	I shot my 460 PC on Saturday. Even with just iron sights I was able to easily keep a few cylinders on a 18" circle at 200yds. Can't wait to get a scope on it.

December 27, 2009, 11:34 PM	#16
Millbilly Member Join Date: November 6, 2005 Location: Cooks Mills Illinois,,,,Not even close to Chicago Posts: 47	watch out for flame when you shoot your 460.......

December 28, 2009, 08:18 PM	#18
Millbilly Member Join Date: November 6, 2005 Location: Cooks Mills Illinois,,,,Not even close to Chicago Posts: 47	That flash was with my 460 PC 10 1/2" My friend was taking pics and just got lucky by catching the flash......in the day light.....

January 5, 2010, 04:43 AM	#19
mellowthunder Junior Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 7	Have been wavering between FAs .454 Casull or Smiths PC .460 . Gotta admit this pushes me a little more to the 83. And carguychris, love your quote by 'a man with no name'. I assume you know his name was actually Tuco Ramirez? (Eli Wallach) My favorite was "I like big, fat men like you. When they fall down, they make a lotta noise. And sometimes, they never get up."

January 17, 2010, 12:09 AM	#20
Danielcan Junior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: East of Vancouver, B.C. Canada Posts: 12	blondie said it to tuco

September 27, 2010, 07:49 PM	#23
TenRing Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Posts: 427	Outsourcing is supposed to allow a company to provide a higher quality product at lower cost by taking advantage of the capabilities of other companies. That way, they don't have to spend time and money to develop everything themselves and they can focus on what they do best. It's not necessarily a bad thing if done correctly.