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Old September 23, 2009, 01:59 PM   #1
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Email California's Govornor!

Please email the Govornor of California if you don't want restrictions creeping into your state! If you are living in the land of fruits and nuts like me, you better give the Governator a piece of your mind!

You can email the govorner at:

I sent the following message to him today.

10 Reasons Governor Schwarzenegger should veto AB962 and SB585
1. Criminals don’t obey laws that restrict freedom.
2. Restricting ammunition sales reduces federal excise taxes which fund wildlife management programs, and reduces state taxes by driving ammunition sales across state lines.
3. The state will spend badly needed money fighting the legal challenges that will be filed against laws that are prejudicial and unconstitutional.
4. These laws will destroy the civilian marksmanship program which teaches gun safety, maturity and personal responsibility
5. These laws reduce marksmanship training, weakens national defense and decreases gun safety by decreasing firearm proficiency training.
6. Selling beer endangers the public more than selling ammunition. However nobody is proposing fingerprinting beer drinkers at a bar, restricting the mail order of alcohol or limiting the number of drinks a person can legally purchase in a day, or prohibit the selling of alcohol at public events. This would be considered too intrusive as there are laws already in effect that define the illegal use of alcohol just as there are already laws that define the illegal use and possession of ammunition.
7. Laws that specifically target peaceful gun owners are prejudicial, create mistrust of government and will not prevent violent crime any more than alcohol laws prevent drunk driving or underage drinking.
8. Intrusive regulation of firearms ammunition will create further opportunities for violent street gangs to profit from ammunition theft and black market ammunition sales.
9. The fingerprinting and recordkeeping provisions of AB962 invade a persons right to privacy in the same way that fingerprinting beer purchasers would be considered intrusive.
10. Finally, the most important reason to Veto AB962 and SB585 is because you have sworn an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States . These laws violate the second and ninth amendment to the constitution as well as interstate commerce and free trade. Rather than creating problems for peaceful activities and following hidden agendas, the legislature should be spending time figuring out how to create jobs and keep prisoners incarcerated so people like Charles Manson and Phillip Guarido cannot harm the citizen’s of California. Reducing the ability of citizens to protect themselves from predators makes everyone less safe. Send a clear message to the legislature that these laws are a waste of valuable legislators time at tax payers expense. Show citizens that you believe in freedom and take a stand that supports citizen rights, free trade and the constitution of the United States!
VETO AB962 and SB585
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Old September 23, 2009, 02:05 PM   #2
Bud Helms
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This fits better in L&CR than General Discussion.

"The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinion." - John Lawton, speaking to the American Association of Broadcast Journalists in 1995
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Old September 24, 2009, 11:41 AM   #3
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ETA: PDF of high-res flyer @ the calguns link below (CAUTION: 11MB file!); remember to print it 2-sided or use this 1-sided PDF or this jpg. Thanks for the host Artherd and Obeygiant! Special thanks to 8-Ball for his MANY HOURS of hard work making this happen!

As you read this, a small flyer containing information on how we can stop AB962/SB585 is being printed by the thousands. If you're looking for a way to get involved in 2A activism, there's no better time than now and we're making it as painless as possible. All you have to do is let us know if you're in any of the following areas and we will (at no cost to you) print and deliver/ship a box of these flyers; you would be a "distribution point" in simple terms. Then, it's up to you to work with other Calgunners and gun owners to get these into the hands of FFLs, ammo vendors, ranges and sympathetic retailers and make sure their clerks will hand them out with change and receipts. We believe that ~50 flyers would be appropriate for smaller/low-volume stores and ~150 for the larger stores/ranges.

Some ideas for drop-off locations: FFLs, ammo retailers, Wal-Mart, Big 5, Turners...

We'll soon upload the PDF so you can email it to you your favorite online ammo dealers and gun show vendors and let them know what kind of impact these bills will have on their business. Remember, even Sham Wow makes money at gun shows; let's let everyone (in and out of California) know that they, too, need to call, write, email and fax the Governor and urge him to VETO THESE BANS.

If anyone is interested in assisting with the cost of this effort, please donate to the Calguns Foundation TODAY!

Please reply by post (not PM, please) if you're interested and can help in any way; I will reply to those who post interest and contact you for your address/phone.

I did not do this work, Just passing it on. Please help our cause in California, They are BANNING Internet Handgun Ammo sales. Please call the Governor even if you do not live in California. Sometime the line will be busy. I called 46 times @ busy hour of 8pm and only got through 11x. Phone calls are cheap, Our Rights as Americans are priceless.

Thank you
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Old September 24, 2009, 11:44 AM   #4
Join Date: December 17, 2008
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Email from Cabelas re: Ammo Ban

Good evening Gang
This is what I got in the e-mail tonight from Cabelas. Very interesting. Put it into perspective what they and all the other online companies will lose.

To: Cabela's California Customers
From: Cabela's Communications
Subject: California Assembly Bill 962
Date: Sept. 22, 2009

We are writing to inform you of pending legislation that will restrict purchases of handgun ammunition in California and will terminate our ability to service your needs for certain products.

On Friday, Sept. 11, the California Assembly passed Assembly Bill 962, by a 44-31 vote.

Among other regulations, AB 962 would:

• Ban all mail-order and Internet sales of handgun ammunition.
• Prohibit the retail sale, the offer for sale or the display of handgun ammunition in a
manner that allows ammunition to be accessible to a purchaser without assistance of a
vendor or employee.
• Require that the delivery or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition occur in a
face-to-face transaction, with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide
evidence of identity of the purchaser or other transferee.
That evidence of identity, which must be legibly recorded at the time of delivery, includes:

• The right thumbprint of the purchaser or transferee.
• The date of the sale or other transaction.
• The purchaser's or transferee's driver's license or other identification number and the
state in which it was issued.
• The brand, type and amount of ammunition sold or otherwise transferred.
• The purchaser's or transferee's signature.
• The name of the salesperson who processed the sale or other transaction.
• The purchaser's or transferee's full residential address and telephone number.
• The purchaser's or transferee's date of birth.
The bill is on the desk of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, where it awaits his consideration. He will have until Oct. 11 to sign or veto the bill. If he does not veto the bill, it will become law.

If you wish to comment on AB 962, you may contact Gov. Schwarzenegger by phone at (916) 445-2841, or via fax at (916) 558-3160. To e-mail Gov. Schwarzenegger, visit

We encourage all Cabela's customers who participate in the shooting sports to contact Gov. Schwarzenegger to voice their opposition to this initiative, which will limit your opportunities to shop with Cabela's, and will restrict the sale of handgun ammunition everywhere in California. [/b]
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Old September 24, 2009, 11:47 AM   #5
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The California assembly is INSANE & STUPID!
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." --American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)

Last edited by Al Norris; September 24, 2009 at 04:15 PM. Reason: No Invectives
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Old September 24, 2009, 01:06 PM   #6
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The California assembly is INSANE & STUPID!
I'm sorry to disagree and be the devil's advocate here, but they are not stupid.
Those Assembly Members keep getting re-elected for term after term. The same as it was when I still lived in California. Stupid people can't get the voters to turn out like they can.
Which leaves one to wonder about the intelligence of the sheeple that are casting the ballots.
Insanity is a legal term and I'm not qualified to make such a determination. I'm fairly sure it requires a judge and some testimony though.

The part that makes no sense is voters choosing the same candidates thinking something different will occur in Sacramento.
The ghost of Willie Brown is still walking those halls.

I just hope enough letters, email and phone calls will bring about the Governor's veto.
I pray for my former home state nightly.
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Old September 24, 2009, 01:22 PM   #7
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I just hope a lot of vendors are doing what Cabela's is doing - if it catches on there - there's no telling where it can go from CA.

Those folks out there are a little dingy, me thinks
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Old September 24, 2009, 01:49 PM   #8
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The voters of California are getting precisely what they voted for - no more, no less.
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Old September 24, 2009, 02:19 PM   #9
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The voters of California are getting precisely what Some voted for - no more, no less.

We are making strides in California that will have nationwide impact. the dc roster, Heller, CCW and many more. We are educating people more and more. most poeple when they are educated about whats going on say REALLY???
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Old September 24, 2009, 05:47 PM   #10
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If it becomes law I would hope all ammunition manufacturers and vendors refuse all sales to California government and police entities.
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Old September 24, 2009, 06:46 PM   #11
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You can also tweet him on Twitter as "Gov. Schwarzenegger". He actually does read these. Who knows about his emails.
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Old September 25, 2009, 02:34 PM   #12
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Call the CA governor and vote NO on AB962

AB962 is sitting on the Governor’s desk awaiting his veto or signature. AB962 would mandate the following changes in the way you buy ammunition:

1) It would prohibit the sale of ammo in a manner that allows the ammunition to be accessible without the help of an employee. In other words, you’ll have to stand in line and have to wait to be shown the ammunition you may want to purchase.
2) It would require the dealer to ask for you ID each time you buy handgun ammunition and the dealer will record the following personal information:
a. A thumbprint
b. Your CDL #
c. Your home address and telephone number
d. The brand and type of ammunition that you purchased
e. Your date of birth
3) Additionally, it would be illegal to buy ammo via online or mail order methods, so if a local store can’t find you older, hard-to-get or obsolete ammunition, you won’t be able to get it from via the internet.

Please contact the Governor today and let him know that you oppose AB962.

You can contact him at 916-445-2841 and do an auto-vote against the bill as follows:

Listen to the recorded message and press in the following order:

1 (English)
2 (legislation)
2 (AB962)
2 (against)

If it is busy – keep trying, and it is easier to get through after hours. It is all automated.
This is not over yet. Let the governor that you are against this bill and urge him to vote NO. The number will be busy, I've been trying all morning but I'll continue until I get through.

Retired Navy (1966-2004)
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Old September 28, 2009, 06:16 AM   #13
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The voters of California are getting precisely what they voted for - no more, no less.
Some of the voters are getting precisely what they voted for - no more, no less.
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Old September 28, 2009, 11:35 AM   #14
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Bear in mind too that California doesn't exist in a vacuum. What happend there can evetually happen in your neck of the woods. Don't think so? Think again. California initiatives spread across the country like a cancer
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Old September 29, 2009, 07:17 PM   #15
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Could someone direct me to the thread that explains why another governmental group discontinued the ammo scheme due to lack of effectiveness? I'd like to refer to that in my FAX and phone call.
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Old December 1, 2009, 09:43 AM   #16
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Could someone direct me to the thread that explains why another governmental group discontinued the ammo scheme due to lack of effectiveness?
Dragging up an old thread here because I'm curious about the answer to this question as well.

Any updates on the California ammo law?
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Old December 1, 2009, 03:23 PM   #17
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I like the no sales to LEO idea.

What ever happened to the giant earthquake that was going to bury CA in the sea... JK.
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. Second Amendment Foundation is a solid alternative.
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Old December 1, 2009, 03:23 PM   #18
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AB962, the bill that would restrict ammunition sales in California was signed this past evening by Governor Schwarzennegger. His comments are below:

"To the Members of the California State Assembly: I am signing Assembly Bill 962.

This measure would require vendors of handgun ammunition to keep a log of information on handgun ammunition sales, store ammunition in a safe and secure manner, and require the face to-face transfer of ammunition sales.

Although I have previously vetoed legislation similar to this measure, local governments have demonstrated that requiring ammunition vendors to keep records on ammunition sales improves public safety. These records have allowed law enforcement to arrest and prosecute persons who have no business possessing firearms and ammunition: gang members, violent parolees, second and third strikers, and even people previously serving time in state prison for murder.

Utilized properly, this type of information is invaluable for keeping communities safe and preventing dangerous felons from committing crimes with firearms.

Moreover, this type of record keeping is no more intrusive for law abiding citizens than similar laws governing pawnshops or the sale of cold medicine. Unfortunately, even the most successful
local program is flawed; without a statewide law, felons can easily skirt the record keeping requirements of one city by visiting another. Assembly Bill 962 will fix this problem by
mandating that all ammunition vendors in the state keep records on ammunition sales.

As Governor, I have sought the appropriate balance between public safety and the right to keep and bear arms. I have signed important public safety measures to regulate the sale and transfer of .50 caliber rifles, instituted the California Firearms License Check program, and promoted the use of microstamping technology in handguns. I have also vetoed many pieces of legislation that sought to place unreasonable restrictions and burdens on firearms dealers and ammunition vendors.

Assembly Bill 962 reasonably regulates access to ammunition and improves public safety without placing undue burdens on consumers. For these reasons, I am pleased to sign this bill."
Show me the data
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Old December 2, 2009, 07:47 AM   #19
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Could someone direct me to the thread that explains why another governmental group discontinued the ammo scheme due to lack of effectiveness?
Not a thread, but perhaps some useful information:

The federal Gun Control Act of 1968 imposed a series of regulations on ammunition manufacturers, dealers and purchasers. The Act required all ammunition manufacturers and dealers to be licensed and maintain ammunition sales logs, prohibited licensees from selling any ammunition to persons under age 18 and handgun ammunition to persons under age 21, and prohibited interstate sales to unlicensed purchasers (proscribing mail-order transactions). Gun Control Act of 1968, Pub. L. No. 90-618, 82 Stat. 1213.

However, in 1986, Congress passed the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act, which repealed most of these provisions, including the licensing of ammunition dealers, ammunition sales recordkeeping, and the ban on interstate transfers of ammunition to unlicensed purchasers. Firearms Owners’ Protection Act, Pub. L. No. 99-308, 100 Stat. 449 (1986). None has been reenacted by Congress.
Not exactly a direct answer to the question, but perhaps a starting point to search for Congressional debate records on the 1986 Firearms Owners’ Protection Act?
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Old December 2, 2009, 07:43 PM   #20
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OK, I'm more confused, not less. The law was signed in October, but I just went to Cabela's out of curiosity. Shopped up some nice .38 JHP rounds and looked to see what it says where you order. I found this:

DE, DC, IL, MA, NY and OH residents should check local laws, but what about CA? I thought this put them out of biz there?
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Old December 2, 2009, 08:40 PM   #21
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The law isn't effective until 1st February 2011.
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Old December 3, 2009, 03:46 AM   #22
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No sales.

Here is an idea. I expect many of you would not support it, as it is a bit extreme. It would, however, be seriously effective if enough people were involved.
At this juncture, it's too late to email politicians or lobbyists. Perhaps we should re-direct our email traffic to ammunition manufacturers and retailers. Here is a suggestion for the text of the message:

Dear Sir/Madam,

In response to the unconstitutional repression of freedom committed by the State of California, manifested in the form of AB962, the lawful and rightfully entitled gun owners of America will no longer buy products from manufacturers who make profit or offer for sale any of their products to the law enforcement and government agencies of the State of California. We can no longer offer our dollars to manufacturers or retailers who support the people and organizations who work to strip away the rights of American People.

John Q. American

I have to assume that a few hundred thousand of those to Hornaday, Federal, or Remington would have an effect on their corporate policies. And in regards to smaller manufactures who also provide munitions to LE, even just tens of thousands would put them under.
The secret to the success of this plan is that it has to be acted upon, not just spoken of. We, collectively, need to be willing to take the hit to our wallets and buy more expensive ammo, or research our products, or shoot less, whatever it takes.
I will also use this post to call out the past, in reference to the future. Gun owners, overall, are a sad, sorry lot when it comes to things like this. It is the few doing the work of the many. At a time like this, that must stop. We owe it to ourselves and to one another to take real action, not words and letters, while the legal and economic means to do so are still viable. The day is fast approaching when that might not be possible. Like many others, I do not want to see that day come. If it does, it means we've failed every day up to that point.
Whether we boycott manufacturers, boycott retailers, write letters, or choose some other course of action, we are in a time where small victories are no longer acceptable.

Regards to all,
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others and I expect the same from them." - John Wayne
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Old December 3, 2009, 07:34 AM   #23
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Is there a Firearm Industry Council for store owners large and small and manufacturers who may be affected? There should be, the small segment of the economy containing my trade smushed CARB and the EPA and proposed rules/regs that were in place to affect motorcycle owners across the country....emanating from Cali. It cost business owners large and small, but in the end Cali, CARB and the EPA folded, at least for the time being.

Very different situation, but I don't understand why the industry doesn't protect its interests by having an organized sector lobby outside of the RKBA groups. Maybe there is a group? If so, what do they say, or is it so low key as to be confused with heads in the sand? Frankly, between this and the lead ban, something out there isn't working.

Good luck!
The uncomfortable question common to all who have had revolutionary changes imposed on them: are we now to accept what was done to us just because it was done?
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Last edited by alloy; December 3, 2009 at 08:48 AM.
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Old December 3, 2009, 10:46 AM   #24
Guy B. Meredith
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News videos on a local Fox station have a couple of store owners saying they are on board with the law. Remember limiting mail order ammo helps their sales.
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Old December 3, 2009, 10:57 AM   #25
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it wont help them with sales one bit. people are just going to go rogue on getting ammo. i would not want my name placed on any registration for ammo. plus the one box per person per month or whatever it is. i would risk driving out of state and making purchases before i'd buy there now. and you will see the craze to get it mail order until it goes into effect.
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