The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 6, 2009, 10:36 AM   #51
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128

I'm not claiming the guys he shot were good guys, by any stretch.

I'm also not saying he didn't have reason for fear.

I am saying that other train passengers had not been harmed by the guys involved, and that Goetz' description of events didn't quite mesh with those of the witnesses on the train.

I'm also saying that Goetz set himself up for serious problems by putting the second bullet into a BG that was down and not fighting, and making his stupid "have another" comment.

He got off easily on the criminal complaint; unlawful possession of a firearm, if I remember correctly, is the only charge that stuck.

The civil suit's outcome was mostly of his own making. Again, his second bullet and comment hurt him; he is an abject example of the value of keeping one's mouth shut.
MLeake is offline  
Old September 6, 2009, 10:49 AM   #52
Claude Clay
Senior Member
Join Date: March 14, 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 325
are you a target shooter or a gunfighter?

the first shot is a point-shoot coming out of low ready at the perps bellybutton [Mozambique lower plate]. second shot is semi-aimed at his COM [ m. upper plate] 3rd shot is aimed at the 2nd perp's COM [ m.upper plate only].

from buzzer this drill puts 3 shots from concealed draw on target in 1.5 seconds. threats are at 3 to 5 yards. people ask 'what is good when you practice?' this is one component of measuring good. under 2 seconds starts the 'good'.
situational awareness is another--better to avoid the gun play completely.
NRA Instructor -- NRA Basic Pistol & Re-Loading

Make a fire for a man and you warm him for the night
Light him on fire and you warm him for the rest of his life
Claude Clay is offline  
Old September 6, 2009, 10:49 AM   #53
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 4,397
2 to the chest 1 to the head but what if there are two people?
Boarding house rules might then apply. Or move and stack your opponents before firing. No one technique works for all situations. You adapt and improvise.
“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides
Deaf Smith is offline  
Old September 6, 2009, 02:28 PM   #54
Glenn E. Meyer
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 18,724
It seems to me that when one contemplates shooting one person twice in the abdomen, moving to shoot another person in the abdomen, and moving back to shoot the first person in the head, and then moving again to shoot the second person in the head to 'finish them off', that person has crossed some sort of line beyond 'shoot to stop'. We're now in the territory of 'kill any aggressors', and I shouldn't have to explain why this mentality is not only immoral or destructive, but also contrary to the philosophy that those who espouse a respect for 2nd amendment rights wish to uphold.
I must disagree with this analysis. I also must say that I don't respect the comments about morality or the 2nd Amend. I also, also say that the analysis fails to appreciate the actual situation.

First, using an opportunity to get of Dodge and disengage is the way to go. However, in lethal force situation, faced with foes with weapons - a shot in the abdomen is not guaranteed to stop any attack. The Mozambique drill is a response to a failure to stop. That means the opponent is still in the fight and a lethal threat to you.

You need to stop the threat if still posed. As a shot anywhere in the torso can be lethal - I fail to see the differential morality to add more shots to the original seeing the opponent is still in the fight.

Next, we have:

If you've shot a human armed with a screwdriver and can't find a way to overpower them or otherwise extricate one's self from the situation after firing a shot into said assailant then you would certainly fail the most basic of physical fitness tests.
That's simply not reality. Perhaps the poster is someone of superhuman physical abilities. But some folks might shoot a big person in the stomach and if he doesn't stop, not have the physical ability to go H2H.

Thus, the tactical and philosophical aspects of that post do not stand up to analysis.
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
Being an Academic Shooter
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old September 6, 2009, 05:00 PM   #55
Nowhere Man
Senior Member
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Location: North Port, FL
Posts: 172
It amazes me how some threads take on a life of their own.

From the OP asking how to shoot a simple 6 round drill to SpectreBlofeld's coment on how "Threads like this make me feel uncomfortable".

Nowhere Man is offline  
Old September 6, 2009, 07:43 PM   #56
Senior Member
Join Date: June 18, 2008
Location: Pac.N.W.
Posts: 1,804
jamaica "shoot them between the eye's"
That might be the biggest "Movie Answer" ever on TFL. Maybe from the hip too.
Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!
comn-cents is offline  
Old September 6, 2009, 09:27 PM   #57
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: Washington state
Posts: 7,478
This thread appears to have run its course.

Thanks to all the non-chest-thumping answer-ers for the good discussion.

Kathy Jackson
My personal website: Cornered Cat
pax is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:27 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2017 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent:
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.05542 seconds with 7 queries