SBR/NFA questions

jwfuhrman · July 6, 2009, 10:07 AM

Ok, Im looking to build my first SBR/NFA gun. Ive submitted my paper work as a 10.5in barreled SBR(M4).

My questions are as follows as Im completely new to this side of shooting sports/collecting

1. My uncle is a gunsmith, went to school all that good ****, has built and designed his own guns. He has the means to cut/crown barrels.
- Should I save some money and have him cut down, crown and thread my 16in Bushmaster barrel to 10.5in. Or should I spend the money and get the Noveske 10.5in barrel when they come in stock?

2. With my Stamp for that gun. I put it down as a SBR but can I buy a Suppressor for it as well and maybe even a new trigger group/lower to make it Full Auto or do I have to submit paper work for each change I want to make to that 1 gun?

Any and all help is appreciated it as Im new to this.

freakshow10mm · July 6, 2009, 10:10 AM

You cannot convert your weapon to full auto unless you are a class 2 manufacturer. If you want a full auto, get a RDIAS or registered receiver. Then you can put whatever barrel length you want on it. You will need a stamp for the suppressor since the suppressor is a firearm according to the NFA.

jwfuhrman · July 6, 2009, 02:02 PM

got ya, wasnt sure how all that worked.

As to the first question, what do you think would be a better choice. Having my "stock" Bushmaster 16in barrel cut down and crowned for 10.5in or just quit being a penny pincher and order a 10.5 Noveske or Rainier arms barrel? My SBR is going to be my 100yrd and less gun for around home and my farm.

For the money I want to get the best performance outta my decision/choice with 55gr XM193 ammo(and or equivalent hand loads).

Wiskey_33 · July 6, 2009, 02:12 PM

Id just go ahead and buy a new barrel with a 1:7 twist.

Willie Lowman · July 6, 2009, 06:11 PM

Yeah, get a new upper.

You could always sell the complete 16" upper or keep it in case you want to have the ATF remove your gun from the registry and have it just be a regular rifle again. ( you don't have to do this if unless you want to sell the gun without the form 4 transfer.)

Hkmp5sd · July 6, 2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

or keep it in case you want to have the ATF remove your gun from the registry and have it just be a regular rifle again. ( you don't have to do this if unless you want to sell the gun without the form 4 transfer.)

You do not need to possess a >16" barreled upper to remove an AR from the SBR registry or to sell it as a Title I weapon. Simply dispose of the <16" barrel and file the paperwork to remove it.

AMX · July 6, 2009, 06:42 PM

If you did have your Bushmaster barrel cut down, you'd probably need the gas port opened up too. That means taking off the front site and on Bushy's that can be a real PITA. I've removed many front sites over the years but I will never again do a Bushmaster.

Most 16" barrels have a .063 gas port and most 10.5" barrels have a .093.

jwfuhrman · July 6, 2009, 07:41 PM

well ive got a low profile gas block on it already. removing the front site post/gas block was a pain for sure. i could bore the gas hole open farther as I have a AGIE Sinker EDM at work that I run.

but its sounding more like a smarter choice to just get a new upper. what about just a new barrel? just order just the barrel? i dont need to change anything else do I?

Ridge_Runner_5 · July 6, 2009, 11:17 PM

10.5" Noveske with a Troy 10" freefloat handguard and Noveske KX-3 flash hider
$700 http://ee.ar15.com/ItemView.aspx?iid=17490

jwfuhrman · July 7, 2009, 08:24 AM

I would deffinately contact that guy but Im not a registered member on AR15.com as I dont have anything but a web-based email account(hotmail)

jmorris · July 7, 2009, 09:25 AM

If you plan to go with a full auto reciever, save the SBR money (your going to need it). You can have any barrel length on a machinegun with only one stamp.

jwfuhrman · July 7, 2009, 09:33 AM

oh really....interesting.....maybe I will do just that....

AMX · July 7, 2009, 03:08 PM

Be advised, as jmorris hinted at, registered receivers (MG's) are expensive. They start at about $9,000.

To answer your other question. You could get away with just changing the barrel on the upper you already have. If you have a lot of rounds through it you should probably use a new bolt too.

jwfuhrman · July 7, 2009, 03:37 PM

I was wondering about the bolt thing. Didnt know if a different barrel required a different bolt.

Willie Lowman · July 7, 2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

You do not need to possess a >16" barreled upper to remove an AR from the SBR registry or to sell it as a Title I weapon.

I suppose not, but if he did not have a >16" barreled upper after the weapon was removed from the registry all he would have is a lower with some useless engraving on it. Not something that is in very high demand.

Yellowfin · July 9, 2009, 03:06 PM

From what I've read it's a lot better to use a 11.5" barrel as it runs a lot better and doesn't have timing issues with the gas system.

Hkmp5sd · July 9, 2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Be advised, as jmorris hinted at, registered receivers (MG's) are expensive. They start at about $9,000.

You might pick up a registered DIAS for $9,000, if you can find one. Most M16s are going for $16,000-$23,000. I did see a Sendra M16 (clone) over at Impact Guns that sold for $12,500. Even the old M11/9 bullet hose has made it up to $4,000.

AMX · July 9, 2009, 03:44 PM

You still see RR's go for about $9,000 once in a while but they go pretty fast. There's some Oly's and a Sendra for under 10 right now at subguns. RDIAS are catching up to RR's in price, especially the steel ones.

jwfuhrman · July 11, 2009, 11:20 AM

just curious. Can I order a 10.5in barrel without the Tax Stamp?

I was on Rainier's website and it let me get all the way thru the checkout process, sans actually paying as I didnt want to pay and not have my stamp if needed.

Hkmp5sd · July 11, 2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

just curious. Can I order a 10.5in barrel without the Tax Stamp?

Yep, you can do it. You will be in violation of federal law per ATF once you take possession of it, but nothing prevents you from doing it.

jwfuhrman · July 11, 2009, 02:56 PM

well Im mailing out my Form 1 on Monday. Was just curious about that, seems kinda funny how you can buy something, but then once I have it, its illegal. Its illegal only once its on my gun though isnt it.

Hkmp5sd · July 11, 2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Its illegal only once its on my gun though isnt it.

No. Per ATF, being in possession of both is "constructive possession" and illegal, whether or not you ever actually assemble it. Just wait for the stamp.

jwfuhrman · July 11, 2009, 05:37 PM

oh ya I plan on waiting for the Stamp, I just thought it was odd that I didnt say anything about my NFA stamp....

TheManHimself · July 11, 2009, 06:26 PM

Because you could also be putting it on a pistol lower and still be good to go without a tax stamp.

Boone Hillbilly · July 19, 2009, 09:36 PM

You can have the upper on you as long as you do not have an AR lower. If you have a registered AR pistol then you can have shorty uppers.. I am an 02 SOT and what I advise my customers t do is if they ant to go ahead and buy the upper leave it with me until they get the paperwork back.

July 6, 2009, 10:07 AM	#1
jwfuhrman Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 31	SBR/NFA questions Ok, Im looking to build my first SBR/NFA gun. Ive submitted my paper work as a 10.5in barreled SBR(M4). My questions are as follows as Im completely new to this side of shooting sports/collecting 1. My uncle is a gunsmith, went to school all that good ****, has built and designed his own guns. He has the means to cut/crown barrels. - Should I save some money and have him cut down, crown and thread my 16in Bushmaster barrel to 10.5in. Or should I spend the money and get the Noveske 10.5in barrel when they come in stock? 2. With my Stamp for that gun. I put it down as a SBR but can I buy a Suppressor for it as well and maybe even a new trigger group/lower to make it Full Auto or do I have to submit paper work for each change I want to make to that 1 gun? Any and all help is appreciated it as Im new to this. __________________ I will not go quietly into the night, I will not stand idolly by while the Constitution of the Country I love so much, and so many men have died to protect be changed. The Constitution starts WE THE PEOPLE, not We The Governing Body.

July 6, 2009, 02:02 PM	#3
jwfuhrman Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 31	got ya, wasnt sure how all that worked. As to the first question, what do you think would be a better choice. Having my "stock" Bushmaster 16in barrel cut down and crowned for 10.5in or just quit being a penny pincher and order a 10.5 Noveske or Rainier arms barrel? My SBR is going to be my 100yrd and less gun for around home and my farm. For the money I want to get the best performance outta my decision/choice with 55gr XM193 ammo(and or equivalent hand loads). __________________ I will not go quietly into the night, I will not stand idolly by while the Constitution of the Country I love so much, and so many men have died to protect be changed. The Constitution starts WE THE PEOPLE, not We The Governing Body.

July 6, 2009, 02:12 PM	#4
Wiskey_33 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2007 Location: The South Posts: 1,084	Id just go ahead and buy a new barrel with a 1:7 twist. __________________ "I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"-Uncle Ted

July 6, 2009, 06:11 PM	#5
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	Yeah, get a new upper. You could always sell the complete 16" upper or keep it in case you want to have the ATF remove your gun from the registry and have it just be a regular rifle again. ( you don't have to do this if unless you want to sell the gun without the form 4 transfer.) __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

July 6, 2009, 07:41 PM	#8
jwfuhrman Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 31	well ive got a low profile gas block on it already. removing the front site post/gas block was a pain for sure. i could bore the gas hole open farther as I have a AGIE Sinker EDM at work that I run. but its sounding more like a smarter choice to just get a new upper. what about just a new barrel? just order just the barrel? i dont need to change anything else do I? __________________ I will not go quietly into the night, I will not stand idolly by while the Constitution of the Country I love so much, and so many men have died to protect be changed. The Constitution starts WE THE PEOPLE, not We The Governing Body.

July 6, 2009, 10:10 AM	#2
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	You cannot convert your weapon to full auto unless you are a class 2 manufacturer. If you want a full auto, get a RDIAS or registered receiver. Then you can put whatever barrel length you want on it. You will need a stamp for the suppressor since the suppressor is a firearm according to the NFA.

July 6, 2009, 06:42 PM	#7
AMX Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Posts: 129	If you did have your Bushmaster barrel cut down, you'd probably need the gas port opened up too. That means taking off the front site and on Bushy's that can be a real PITA. I've removed many front sites over the years but I will never again do a Bushmaster. Most 16" barrels have a .063 gas port and most 10.5" barrels have a .093.

July 6, 2009, 11:17 PM	#9
Ridge_Runner_5 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,925	10.5" Noveske with a Troy 10" freefloat handguard and Noveske KX-3 flash hider $700 http://ee.ar15.com/ItemView.aspx?iid=17490

July 7, 2009, 08:24 AM	#10
jwfuhrman Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 31	I would deffinately contact that guy but Im not a registered member on AR15.com as I dont have anything but a web-based email account(hotmail) __________________ I will not go quietly into the night, I will not stand idolly by while the Constitution of the Country I love so much, and so many men have died to protect be changed. The Constitution starts WE THE PEOPLE, not We The Governing Body.

July 7, 2009, 09:25 AM	#11
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	If you plan to go with a full auto reciever, save the SBR money (your going to need it). You can have any barrel length on a machinegun with only one stamp.

July 7, 2009, 09:33 AM	#12
jwfuhrman Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 31	oh really....interesting.....maybe I will do just that.... __________________ I will not go quietly into the night, I will not stand idolly by while the Constitution of the Country I love so much, and so many men have died to protect be changed. The Constitution starts WE THE PEOPLE, not We The Governing Body.

July 7, 2009, 03:08 PM	#13
AMX Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Posts: 129	Be advised, as jmorris hinted at, registered receivers (MG's) are expensive. They start at about $9,000. To answer your other question. You could get away with just changing the barrel on the upper you already have. If you have a lot of rounds through it you should probably use a new bolt too.

July 7, 2009, 03:37 PM	#14
jwfuhrman Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 31	I was wondering about the bolt thing. Didnt know if a different barrel required a different bolt. __________________ I will not go quietly into the night, I will not stand idolly by while the Constitution of the Country I love so much, and so many men have died to protect be changed. The Constitution starts WE THE PEOPLE, not We The Governing Body.

July 9, 2009, 03:06 PM	#16
Yellowfin Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2007 Location: Lancaster Co, PA Posts: 2,311	From what I've read it's a lot better to use a 11.5" barrel as it runs a lot better and doesn't have timing issues with the gas system. __________________ Students for Concealed Carry on Campus http://www.concealedcampus.org "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws--that's insane!" - Penn Jillette

July 9, 2009, 03:44 PM	#18
AMX Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Posts: 129	You still see RR's go for about $9,000 once in a while but they go pretty fast. There's some Oly's and a Sendra for under 10 right now at subguns. RDIAS are catching up to RR's in price, especially the steel ones.

July 11, 2009, 11:20 AM	#19
jwfuhrman Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 31	just curious. Can I order a 10.5in barrel without the Tax Stamp? I was on Rainier's website and it let me get all the way thru the checkout process, sans actually paying as I didnt want to pay and not have my stamp if needed. __________________ I will not go quietly into the night, I will not stand idolly by while the Constitution of the Country I love so much, and so many men have died to protect be changed. The Constitution starts WE THE PEOPLE, not We The Governing Body.

July 11, 2009, 02:56 PM	#21
jwfuhrman Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 31	well Im mailing out my Form 1 on Monday. Was just curious about that, seems kinda funny how you can buy something, but then once I have it, its illegal. Its illegal only once its on my gun though isnt it. __________________ I will not go quietly into the night, I will not stand idolly by while the Constitution of the Country I love so much, and so many men have died to protect be changed. The Constitution starts WE THE PEOPLE, not We The Governing Body.

July 11, 2009, 05:37 PM	#23
jwfuhrman Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 31	oh ya I plan on waiting for the Stamp, I just thought it was odd that I didnt say anything about my NFA stamp.... __________________ I will not go quietly into the night, I will not stand idolly by while the Constitution of the Country I love so much, and so many men have died to protect be changed. The Constitution starts WE THE PEOPLE, not We The Governing Body.

July 11, 2009, 06:26 PM	#24
TheManHimself Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2008 Posts: 730	Because you could also be putting it on a pistol lower and still be good to go without a tax stamp.

July 19, 2009, 09:36 PM	#25
Boone Hillbilly Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2007 Posts: 123	You can have the upper on you as long as you do not have an AR lower. If you have a registered AR pistol then you can have shorty uppers.. I am an 02 SOT and what I advise my customers t do is if they ant to go ahead and buy the upper leave it with me until they get the paperwork back. __________________ God Bless!!