The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 13, 2000, 11:36 PM   #26
Stephen Ewing
Senior Member
Join Date: February 26, 2000
Posts: 329

Mannock appears to have died in an engine fire following successful combat and Ball died mysteriously against the Richtofen Jasta. Official credit was given to Lothar von Richtofen, who was apparently in Berlin at the time, but Flak is suspected.

McCudden was justifiably very impressed with Voss' flat half-spin, among other things.

And, yes, Sakai's eye surgery without anesthetic is one of the things I try not to think about.

Thanks for making me feel old, BTW. I'm 29.


Stephen Ewing is offline  
Old May 13, 2000, 11:51 PM   #27
Robert the41MagFan
Senior Member
Join Date: November 18, 1999
Posts: 1,233
Battle of Waterloo, Wellington vs. Napolean.

Robert the41MagFan is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 12:19 AM   #28
4V50 Gary
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 20,277
Auerstadt was an impressive French victory. As part of the twin victories (Jena being the other one where Napoleon with 90,000 men against Hohenlohe's 35,000), Davout, with 27,000 men, defeated a much larger Prussian force of 60,000 under Brunswick & King Frederick III.

Another impressive French victory was won by General Jean Rapp who led the 20,000 "Army of the Rhine", a delaying force, against the larger III Corps of Wurtemmberg (Austro-Hungarian) and defeated it at La Suffel (near Strasbourg) ten days after Waterloo. Another subordinate, Marshal Suchet, equitted himself equally well in Piedmont.
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 12:23 AM   #29
Staff Emeritus
Join Date: September 15, 1999
Location: Where am I going? Why am I in this handbasket?
Posts: 4,194
Cortez taking on the Aztec Empire with 600 warm bodies.

Second battle at Adobe Walls. Famous for Quanah Parkers quote: "We no fight against guns who shoot today and kill tomorrow" in reference to Billy Dixon picking a Comanche off a horse at something over 1500 yards with a Sharps buffalo gun.

The defense of Malta during WWII by three biplanes against the Italian Air Force and later, the Luftwaffe.

(Of note, the defense of Malta earned the entire island the George Cross, which is still flown on the Maltese flag.)

Cochise vs. the US Army.


[This message has been edited by LawDog (edited May 14, 2000).]
LawDog is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 02:19 AM   #30
Mike Irwin
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 40,165
Battle of Midway.

Robert E. Lee splitting his forces before Richmond during the height of McClellan's Peninsula fiasco. Lee's brilliance, and McClellan's stupidity, cost the Union a chance to capture Richmond and possibly make the war a year or more shorter.

The United States of America vs. Great Britain, 1775-1783.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 05:49 AM   #31
4V50 Gary
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 20,277
A single Russian Heavy Tank (KV serieis) holding up an entire panzer division for one day. The Germans finally brought up an 88 to take it out.
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 07:15 AM   #32
Keiller TN
Senior Member
Join Date: January 18, 2000
Posts: 483
One of my favorites is recorded in the book of I Samuel 17. I don't know which side was actually inferior, because both Israelites and Philistines were acting cowardly. Goliath, however challenged the Jews to send out a combatant to fight him. A shepherd boy, David, took the challenge and the rest is history. There are a number of other battles in the Old Testament that have inferiors beating the superior forces. Another fine example is Jonathan and his armor bearer who went up against a Philistine garrison with an interesting outcome. I believe a British officer used this account in I Samuel 14 to his advantage in a battle in the 20th century.
Keiller TN is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 11:28 AM   #33
Senior Member
Join Date: March 13, 2000
Location: AL50
Posts: 152
Here is a great Old Testament story:
Gideon and three hundred men rout the
combined armies of Midian and Amalek.
Judges 6-8.
pack_rat is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 02:58 PM   #34
Bill Mitchell
Staff Alumnus
Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Roswell,GA
Posts: 433
1836--780 Texians caught nearly twice as many Mexicans under Santa Anna napping(literally) at San Jacinto,and the Republic of Texas was secured.


[This message has been edited by Bill Mitchell (edited May 14, 2000).]
Bill Mitchell is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 03:10 PM   #35
Senior Member
Join Date: January 18, 2000
Location: above ground
Posts: 1,558
small but detirmined Irish forces of the IRA bleed the British occupation forces and goverment intrastructure until Britan agrees to partition the country and southern Ireland is quasi-free for the first time in over 400 years

this won't be popular but her goes.

detirmined underground forces in Viet Nam resist the French, Japanese, French again and then American occupational forces, never really winning very many battles at all until all the big dogs take thier toys and go home in frustration.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
riddleofsteel is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 03:13 PM   #36
4V50 Gary
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 20,277
Orde Wingate (of WW II Chindit fame) had just captured an Italian fortress in Ethiopia. The telephone rang. He had an Italian speaking officer answer it. His "Italian" officer reported that they were being attacked by a large force of British infantry and armor and that said force was headed in the caller's direction next. Wingate and his men (a paltry force) then walked into the next fort which was abandoned.

Not to knock the Italians, but has anybody read Capt. Erwin Rommel's WW I book, Infantry Attacks? With a few companies of infantry, Rommel bluffed and captured over 10,000 Italians, 200 machine guns, 18 cannons in Longarone.
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 03:41 PM   #37
Senior Member
Join Date: June 9, 1999
Location: Mid-South
Posts: 329
Notably, you will not see an example of a citizen militia defeating an organized army without the assistance of artillery.
Stoic is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 04:01 PM   #38
Senior Member
Join Date: May 13, 2000
Location: VA
Posts: 132
How about the battle of Marathon where a ragtag force of Athenians defeats 20,000 persian troops. A messaneger subsequently runs 23 miles to tell news of the victory and colapses and dies upon reaching his destanation.
PKN is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 07:10 PM   #39
Senior Member
Join Date: March 22, 2000
Location: Peoples Commonwealth of Massachusetts
Posts: 1,562
I cannot believe that this one hasn't been mentioned yet...

In the wee morning hours of 17 June 1775, three Massachusetts regiments, 200 men from Connecticuit and a company from New Hampshire (for moral support ), about 500 men in all, file silently through a deserted Charlestown, just north of the occupied Boston. Lead by Col. William Prescott and Col. Isreal Putnam, the men worked furiously for four hours that morning to fortify Breed's Hill.

When dawn approached, the watch abord HMS Lively in Boston Harbor was astounded to find the 160 foot long, 80 foot wide bastion. The Royal Navy wasted no time in commencing bombardment. In all, more than 1500 British regulars would lay seige to the hill.

"Don't fire until you se the whites of their eye's" -- Isreal Putnam

When all said and done, the Americans suffered 140 killed and 301 wounded. More than 2/3 of the force.

The Brits suffered, 19 officers and 207 men killed, 70 officers and 828 men wounded; 40% of the British attacking force.

Though at the time, it was thought a terrible loss due inpart to the death of Dr. Josephe Warren, a surgeon, a leader and a son of liberty. However, this single day cost the British their momentum, crippled their army and set them on the defensive well into 1776.

"I wish we could sell them another hill at the same price." -- Nathanael Greene

It was the second defining point of the Revolution (the first being the battles of Lexington and Concord.) Benjamin Franklin wrote his famous letter to his friend William Strahan:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Mr. Strahan: You are a member of Parliament and one of that majority that has doomed my country to destruction. You have begun to burn our towns and murder our people. Look upon your hands! They are stained with the blood of your relations! You and I were long friends. You are now my enemy and I am

Yours, B. Franklin[/quote]

Though perhaps not quite a clear victory for the Revolution, this battle indeed did extend its life and increased its support.


[This message has been edited by USP45 (edited May 15, 2000).]
USP45 is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 07:25 PM   #40
Senior Member
Join Date: April 23, 2000
Location: MN
Posts: 1,388
Okay, what about most of the battles by Belisarius? He did it not once or twice but almost always. I would have to dig for the numbers but try 15 thousand vs 150,000. I believe that was one campaign.

[This message has been edited by Glamdring (edited May 14, 2000).]
Glamdring is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 09:22 PM   #41
Senior Member
Join Date: April 19, 1999
Posts: 567
A little personal history.

1973 - A bigger stronger Irish mercenary force hired by the local upper class to put down the upstarts, staging a surprise attack is stopped in its tracks when initial contact results in more damage to the attacking force than the defender.

When I was a smartass punk freshman in high school some of the seniors paid the toughest kid in my class a carton of smokes to kick my ass rather than risk getting in trouble doing it themselves. Kelly had suggested we step out back of the shop building for a smoke, when we got there, there were about 5 of the seniors waiting to see the show. Not having a clue what was about to happen, I was totally surprised when Kelly threw the first punch. It landed on my left cheekbone, and he broke a couple of his knuckles on my hard Swedish head. I went totally berserk, and while he screamed in the pain of his fractured hand, rushed him, threw him down, put the boots to him then turned for the nearest senior, all of whom were scattering as their plan for some entertainment at my expense fell apart.
Learned a couple of important lessons that day. #1 Always be aware of your surroundings. #2 If you are in a fight, go all out or else you are done for


bergie is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 10:22 PM   #42
Join Date: March 25, 2000
Posts: 19
Battle of Long Tan

6th Royal Australian Regiment (6RAR) v Viet Cong 275th Main Force Battalion & Local Force Unit D445 Battalion

"D Company of the 6th Battalion, on it's first tour in 1966-67, earned the high honour of being awarded the U.S. Presidential Unit Citation. The award was made for it's part in the battle of Long Tan, when; on August 18, 1966, the Company was on sweep operations in a rubber plantation and was attacked by a regiment of North Vietnamese and Vietcong troops.

Although outnumbered by more than 10 to one, the Company held it's position for more than three hours until a relief force from other companies arrived in armoured personnel carriers. The enemy fled, leaving 245 dead on the battlefield. D Company lost 17 killed in action and 21 wounded. One soldier of 3rd Troop, 1st Armoured Personnel Carrier Squadron, was also killed in action."
Ash is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 10:52 PM   #43
Munro Williams
Senior Member
Join Date: January 13, 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 936
Siege of Malta:

9,000 Knights of St. John hold off 40,000 Turks for five months: May to September, 1565.
Munro Williams is offline  
Old May 14, 2000, 11:09 PM   #44
Rex Feral
Senior Member
Join Date: February 27, 2000
Location: Southern NH, USA
Posts: 471
MAJ W. G. Barker of No 201 Squadron, RAF, flying a Sopwith Snipe (E8102) on 27 October 1918 (his 10th day in an operational squadron).

While engaging and destroying a German two-seater, Barker is shot through the left thigh by an unseen Fokker DVII. He blacks out and spins down, waking alone in the middle of a formation of 15 Fokker DVIIs, shoots down one of these and receives a second wound in the left thigh. Again he blacks out and when he came to he was surrounded by another group of Fokkers, shoots one down, and receives a wound in the left elbow and loses consciousness. He regains consciousness while under attack by yet another group of fighters and dispatches another while diving away from the fight. Getting his bearings, he dives for the lines, through a fourth enemy formation and crash lands just inside the British lines.

Final tally:
4 German aircraft
3 bullet wounds
1 Victoria Cross

The riddled fuselage of Sopwith Snipe E8102 was recovered and is now on display in Canada.

Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war.
Rex Feral is offline  
Old May 15, 2000, 04:16 AM   #45
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 15,982
Mr. Feral:

Thank you, now I can sleep. I'm trapped at my beau's house without my reference library and the RFC pilot in that engagement had completely slipped my mind. Neither Mannock nor Ball, but the indomitable "Billy" Barker.

I was totally tortured until you posted that...

"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
Tamara is offline  
Old May 15, 2000, 06:39 AM   #46
Rex Feral
Senior Member
Join Date: February 27, 2000
Location: Southern NH, USA
Posts: 471
Glad to be of service m'lady.
Rex Feral is offline  
Old May 15, 2000, 07:46 AM   #47
Danger Dave
Senior Member
Join Date: April 21, 1999
Location: Dallas, GA, USA
Posts: 791
Okay, I'm game...

Battle of Tsushima Straits, 1904(?). My memory isn't working right, I can't remember the name of the Japanese admiral who lead the Japanese fleet...
But, basically, he pulled a page out of Nelson's book and "crossed the T", destroying the Russian Baltic fleet off the coast of Japan (big embarassment for the Russians).

Or, how about the Ethiopians, early 20th century, kicking some Italian butt with spears (the Italians paid them back under Mussolini, though).

Then there's a local one (don't remember the year). South Georgia, St. Simon's Island - Battle of Bloody Marsh. The British forces surprised the Spainish troops (caught them at dawn, IIRC). The Spainish were caught with their rifles stacked & were decimated; the British lost one man - who died of a heart attack chasing the Spainiards. This battle ended any Spainish claims in Georgia.

Don't forget Eric Rudolph vs. the FBI...

[This message has been edited by Danger Dave (edited May 15, 2000).]
Danger Dave is offline  
Old May 15, 2000, 10:17 AM   #48
Staff Alumnus
Join Date: February 23, 1999
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,272
108K, go on with Part II.
Coinneach is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent:
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09842 seconds with 7 queries