Grease - Page 2

Gatofeo · June 6, 2009, 05:39 PM

Walllllllll ... my great-great-great-great-to-the-10th-power Grampa Gato used to make up a cocoction using Dodo Bird tallow, Passenger Pigeon spit, Mastodon fat and the wax from the leaves of Gingko trees.
Swore by it.
Said it was the best-darned lance lubricant he'd ever found, especially when hunting Paleo-Jackalopes which, as you know, can be enormous and will charge if they're wounded.
I'm unsure of the ratio of Dodo Bird tallow, Passenger Pigeon spit, Mastodon fat and Gingko wax; the formula was lost a long time ago.
Frankly, Grandpa Gato liked his Catnip Wine. One evening, under its effect, he used the Brontosaurus hide it was written upon (in Pterodactyl blood, no less) to shine his new sandals and wiped the formula clean off!
The next day, he couldn't recall what amounts to use!
Catnip Wine will do that to ya, as I can personally attest.
No matter ... the ingredients are getting more and more difficult to find.
Best stick to the commercial stuff, or make up a batch of my Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant.
The Dodo, Passenger Pigeon, Mastodon and Gingko will thank you.

arcticap · June 6, 2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

And ya'll didn't suggest me a good name or tell me about the lower price brass revolvers. PEACE

Here's a suggestion for a name, "Right Arm". There was a well known muzzle loading shop by that same name here that closed down, and since you also have the name of a gun shop it occurred to me to suggest it.

I don't know, I would hestitate to buy anything but a .36 brasser. But the .44 Remington brassers may be stronger than the .44 brass Colts. The rear cylinder rod hole may be the weak spot that wears. That's my .02 cents...

Gatofeo · June 6, 2009, 07:00 PM

I have almost universally found that the brass-framed revolvers are not made and finished as well as steel-framed guns.
I often find brass-framed guns with incomplete polishing around the trigger guard, particularly where the trigger guard bow joins the plate, I guess you'd call it.
Anyway, most of the time I find that steel-framed guns have their tool marks polished out, or nearly so, on the surface. Brass guns often have no or little polishing of the frame, where the cylinder sits against.
The action on steel guns is usually smoother than brass guns. Smoother being a relative term, since some steel guns can have atrocious trigger pulls and you can almost feel each individual burr as you pull the hammer.
And many brass guns I've encountered are equal or worse than this!

External fit and finish are almost always indicative of what's to be found inside any gun.
If it has unpolished areas outside, you can bet that the interior parts will be rough as well.
Years ago I knew a man who had a joking theory about brass frame revolvers.
He wondered, in jest, if apprentice Italian gunsmiths didn't start on brass-framed revolvers until they became competent, then were transferred over to steel frames when they demonstrated a markedly better skill level.
I used to chuckle at that but I've sometimes wondered if there wasn't truth to it.
Of course, like anything, you can find very finely made brass-framed guns and very lousy steel-framed guns.
But on average, I'd have to say that the brass-framed revolvers I encounter are almost always inferior to their steel-framed counterpart, often lying next to them in the display case.
It is not unusual to find brass and steel-framed Remington and Colt copies side by side at gun shows and stores.
So, see for yourself. Ask to look at both of them. My bet is that you'll also notice that the brass-framed versions are rougher in fit, finish and function.

Smokin' gun · June 6, 2009, 08:19 PM

The reason I asked about brass framers is because we carry supplies, muzzleloaders, curios, antiques etc. I just recently renewed my interest in c/b revolvers and have some in a display case. Only a few are buying them. I have NIB Colts and some Uberties and Piettas. The Reb Confederate by Peitta sold, along with a 44c brass frame because they are cheaper. My question is....how do you promote these guns here in SC? I personally shoot a 36c Uberti 1861 Navy. The Confederate replicas are cheaper but not as good as the steel frames. Or are they? I was very pleased with the price of the Gunnison Pietta 36 Reb Confederate that comes in a wooden display case.
Going back to cleaning... we recommend mixing 1 quart/distilled water with 2 caps of Blue and Gray Bore Cleaner,and 2 caps of Ballistol . I just recently discovered Ballistol and I like it. If you don't have Blue and Gray then you can mix it with ivory soap but you'll have to adjust the ratio to your liking. Then swab your barrel w/ pure ballistol --or a non petroleum lube if you prefer,after it's dried of course.
My wife is goin to change my name to WBHickup.

Smokin' gun · June 6, 2009, 08:38 PM

sorry===crs again===4 caps of Blue and Gray to one quart of water.3 caps of ballistol

Smokin' gun · June 6, 2009, 08:45 PM

sorry crs again -hell maybe worst than that! 4 caps of blue and gray and 3 caps of ballistol to one quart.

Blankwaffe · June 7, 2009, 12:22 AM

For a cylinder pin/arbor grease I was using vaseline and it worked pretty well.The Bore Butter IMHO is not much of a lubricant,especially on the Walker and Whitneyville.
Recently got some of the new Weapon Shield Grease and started using it on the cylinder pin/arbor.Works a heck of alot better than anything Ive tried so far,especially on the larger revolvers like the Walker.Cylinders feel like they are running on bearings now.
Pretty much eliminated any hard fouling on the arbors.Fouling just wipes off.
For a BP field solvent Ive been using Ballistol mixed 50/50 with water.For a thorough cleaning I use hot water and soap.Dry the parts and soak them down in Ballistol.Good to go.

Andy Griffith · June 7, 2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

The reason I asked about brass framers is because we carry supplies, muzzleloaders, curios, antiques etc. I just recently renewed my interest in c/b revolvers and have some in a display case. Only a few are buying them. I have NIB Colts and some Uberties and Piettas. The Reb Confederate by Peitta sold, along with a 44c brass frame because they are cheaper. My question is....how do you promote these guns here in SC?

That's a good question.
However, I think a thread unto itself would better serve the question (non-thread hijack), and be ready for a plethora of ideas, or the scratching of heads.

Andy Griffith · June 8, 2009, 09:38 AM

I was just wondering...

When I was just got into muzzleloading, I pretty much used T/C bore butter exclusively, but then I moved onto Crisco, Blue & Gray, and a variation of the aforementioned Gatofeo lube.

My question is, has anyone ever tried to make their lube smell a bit better by adding an additive to it like T/C seems to?

I wonder sometimes if its something that comes out of the kitchen- like extracts, but I don't know how the alcohols in extracts would jive with the oils.

Or, is it one of the candle making scents? Most of that stuff is poisonous if eaten- and I was told by a man working for T/C that Bore Butter was non-toxic, so that is ruled out.

Oh well. So much for making an exact version (including scent) of "bore butter" at home.

Smokin' gun · June 8, 2009, 04:14 PM

Lavender will cut the smell but I don't know if it's good for guns. A shaving product "The art of Shaving" makes a pre oil for your face and the main ingredients are olive and castor. But it contains lavender!! It's greasy and has a neutral smell since it has lavender. And they sell it for $25+ for a 3 oz bottle!!!??. You can get all these at the drug store for pocket change. But the lavender takes out that smell. But again---is lavender good for guns? I don't know.

Smokin' gun · June 8, 2009, 09:11 PM

T17 breach plug grease in a small tube is the best I have found. It's fairly expensive and the color is amost turquoise. Put just a little on the plunger, loading lever spring/ hammer hand and sear. Ballestol works for eveberthin else. Olive oil is for cooking. But what did they do in the day. Did they oil w/ petroleum--or melted beef fat. I bet they used the same stuff they greased trains--but I'm just a guessin.

Andy Griffith · June 8, 2009, 10:41 PM

Quote:

I bet they used the same stuff they greased trains--but I'm just a guessin.

I don't know much about history, but I do play with a bit of live steam models, so I do know partially about the lube on trains.

It is called steam cylinder oil, and I guess it would be o.k. to use as a rust preventative- but that is a guess.

This is how I heard it and it was explained to me, and of course you can Google it and see if I'm right since I'm just pulling this from memory, which isn't so hot at times.

It is roughly a 600W oil or thereabouts, but it has one special additive that no other oil on the market today has or has need of- tallow. It is the tallow that allows it to still lubricate under the pressure, temperature and most of all steam and water of a cylinder in a steam engine. Without tallow, the oil or grease would dissipate and fail and the piston would score the cylinder and the whole thing would come to a halt very quickly.

So, if you do get a "live steam" model, don't use 3-in-one oil for lubricating the cylinders- use one of the oils specified by the manufacturer, or go to your local tourist railroad and buy a quart of the stuff- bring your own mason jar though, Chevron only sells it in barrels.

Exactly why I added this bit of superfluous malarkey, I really don't know.

Anyway, steam cylinder oil is a bit too thick to be used for most uses on firearms, except maybe rust proofing or lubing 1911 rails.

mykeal · June 9, 2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

But what did they do in the day.

Whale oil.

madcratebuilder · June 9, 2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

but I do play with a bit of live steam models, so I do know partially about the lube on trains.

I assume you have G scale? What engine? I've been waiting for the right deal on a two cylinder Shay. I have a small outdoor logging layout, about 40X60, some Shay's and a Climax.

Andy Griffith · June 9, 2009, 08:58 AM

No, I wish it was something as practical as G scale.

I just own a little 0-4-0 in 7 1/2" gauge that a friend gave me when he decided to eliminate his collection because his Parkinson's had progressed enough he could no longer run them. It's neat and fun, but there is no way to run it at home- just when I go out to a club- which has only been twice.

Anyway, to keep with the thread... uh...

I think I'll just stick with non-petroleum oils on my blackpowder guns, but it's all preference.

Steam and pressure will not break down the tallow in oils, but soap will.
Petroleum based oils don't break down as well with plain soap, but steam and boiling water will dissipate them.

So long as they go "bang" every time and you are enjoying yourself and happy- that's all that matters.

I'm going to try adding a few drops of peppermint oil to my batch of patch/ball grease in order see if the Mrs. is right that the smell of Bore Butter smells a lot like menthol, which the major component of peppermint oil. We shall see.

arcticap · June 9, 2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

So much for making an exact version (including scent) of "bore butter" at home.

I believe that Bore Butter's aroma ingredient is "tincture of wintergreen".

About tinctures:
http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezin.../wisewoman.htm

Smokin' gun · June 9, 2009, 08:44 PM

I was just guessing about oil in the day. They had petroleum based oils or trains and steamships wouldn't go too far. I have an original 1849 pocket that still cocks and the steel is strong. Big waggon wheel on the cylinder. I wonder who used it-how he used it and greased it. I can only imagine. Maybe I can tell everyone Doc Holliday sold it to Wild Bill.LOL but the inside of the barrel still sparkles like a new one. It cocks in line but of course there is an excessive gap since the cylynder is loose. I could stone it to where it would fit snug but my better sense says--leave it alone.

June 6, 2009, 05:39 PM	#26
Gatofeo Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2004 Location: Remote Utah desert Posts: 224	Walllllllll ... my great-great-great-great-to-the-10th-power Grampa Gato used to make up a cocoction using Dodo Bird tallow, Passenger Pigeon spit, Mastodon fat and the wax from the leaves of Gingko trees. Swore by it. Said it was the best-darned lance lubricant he'd ever found, especially when hunting Paleo-Jackalopes which, as you know, can be enormous and will charge if they're wounded. I'm unsure of the ratio of Dodo Bird tallow, Passenger Pigeon spit, Mastodon fat and Gingko wax; the formula was lost a long time ago. Frankly, Grandpa Gato liked his Catnip Wine. One evening, under its effect, he used the Brontosaurus hide it was written upon (in Pterodactyl blood, no less) to shine his new sandals and wiped the formula clean off! The next day, he couldn't recall what amounts to use! Catnip Wine will do that to ya, as I can personally attest. No matter ... the ingredients are getting more and more difficult to find. Best stick to the commercial stuff, or make up a batch of my Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant. The Dodo, Passenger Pigeon, Mastodon and Gingko will thank you. __________________ "And lo, did I see an ugly cat. Smoke. Brimstone. Holes in parchment. And this ugly cat was much amused." --- The Prophesies of Gatodamus (1503 - 1566)

June 6, 2009, 07:00 PM	#28
Gatofeo Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2004 Location: Remote Utah desert Posts: 224	I have almost universally found that the brass-framed revolvers are not made and finished as well as steel-framed guns. I often find brass-framed guns with incomplete polishing around the trigger guard, particularly where the trigger guard bow joins the plate, I guess you'd call it. Anyway, most of the time I find that steel-framed guns have their tool marks polished out, or nearly so, on the surface. Brass guns often have no or little polishing of the frame, where the cylinder sits against. The action on steel guns is usually smoother than brass guns. Smoother being a relative term, since some steel guns can have atrocious trigger pulls and you can almost feel each individual burr as you pull the hammer. And many brass guns I've encountered are equal or worse than this! External fit and finish are almost always indicative of what's to be found inside any gun. If it has unpolished areas outside, you can bet that the interior parts will be rough as well. Years ago I knew a man who had a joking theory about brass frame revolvers. He wondered, in jest, if apprentice Italian gunsmiths didn't start on brass-framed revolvers until they became competent, then were transferred over to steel frames when they demonstrated a markedly better skill level. I used to chuckle at that but I've sometimes wondered if there wasn't truth to it. Of course, like anything, you can find very finely made brass-framed guns and very lousy steel-framed guns. But on average, I'd have to say that the brass-framed revolvers I encounter are almost always inferior to their steel-framed counterpart, often lying next to them in the display case. It is not unusual to find brass and steel-framed Remington and Colt copies side by side at gun shows and stores. So, see for yourself. Ask to look at both of them. My bet is that you'll also notice that the brass-framed versions are rougher in fit, finish and function. __________________ "And lo, did I see an ugly cat. Smoke. Brimstone. Holes in parchment. And this ugly cat was much amused." --- The Prophesies of Gatodamus (1503 - 1566)

June 7, 2009, 12:22 AM	#32
Blankwaffe Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 47	For a cylinder pin/arbor grease I was using vaseline and it worked pretty well.The Bore Butter IMHO is not much of a lubricant,especially on the Walker and Whitneyville. Recently got some of the new Weapon Shield Grease and started using it on the cylinder pin/arbor.Works a heck of alot better than anything Ive tried so far,especially on the larger revolvers like the Walker.Cylinders feel like they are running on bearings now. Pretty much eliminated any hard fouling on the arbors.Fouling just wipes off. For a BP field solvent Ive been using Ballistol mixed 50/50 with water.For a thorough cleaning I use hot water and soap.Dry the parts and soak them down in Ballistol.Good to go. __________________ 1st Tennessee Co.H "The Maury Grays"

June 8, 2009, 09:38 AM	#34
Andy Griffith Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: Macon Co. NC Posts: 591	I was just wondering... When I was just got into muzzleloading, I pretty much used T/C bore butter exclusively, but then I moved onto Crisco, Blue & Gray, and a variation of the aforementioned Gatofeo lube. My question is, has anyone ever tried to make their lube smell a bit better by adding an additive to it like T/C seems to? I wonder sometimes if its something that comes out of the kitchen- like extracts, but I don't know how the alcohols in extracts would jive with the oils. Or, is it one of the candle making scents? Most of that stuff is poisonous if eaten- and I was told by a man working for T/C that Bore Butter was non-toxic, so that is ruled out. Oh well. So much for making an exact version (including scent) of "bore butter" at home. __________________ Barney Fife: "Nip it, nip it, nip it!" Andy Griffith:"Oh now Barn'...."

June 9, 2009, 08:58 AM	#40
Andy Griffith Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: Macon Co. NC Posts: 591	No, I wish it was something as practical as G scale. I just own a little 0-4-0 in 7 1/2" gauge that a friend gave me when he decided to eliminate his collection because his Parkinson's had progressed enough he could no longer run them. It's neat and fun, but there is no way to run it at home- just when I go out to a club- which has only been twice. Anyway, to keep with the thread... uh... I think I'll just stick with non-petroleum oils on my blackpowder guns, but it's all preference. Steam and pressure will not break down the tallow in oils, but soap will. Petroleum based oils don't break down as well with plain soap, but steam and boiling water will dissipate them. So long as they go "bang" every time and you are enjoying yourself and happy- that's all that matters. I'm going to try adding a few drops of peppermint oil to my batch of patch/ball grease in order see if the Mrs. is right that the smell of Bore Butter smells a lot like menthol, which the major component of peppermint oil. We shall see. __________________ Barney Fife: "Nip it, nip it, nip it!" Andy Griffith:"Oh now Barn'...." Last edited by Andy Griffith; June 9, 2009 at 12:28 PM.

June 6, 2009, 08:19 PM	#29
Smokin' gun Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Posts: 121	The reason I asked about brass framers is because we carry supplies, muzzleloaders, curios, antiques etc. I just recently renewed my interest in c/b revolvers and have some in a display case. Only a few are buying them. I have NIB Colts and some Uberties and Piettas. The Reb Confederate by Peitta sold, along with a 44c brass frame because they are cheaper. My question is....how do you promote these guns here in SC? I personally shoot a 36c Uberti 1861 Navy. The Confederate replicas are cheaper but not as good as the steel frames. Or are they? I was very pleased with the price of the Gunnison Pietta 36 Reb Confederate that comes in a wooden display case. Going back to cleaning... we recommend mixing 1 quart/distilled water with 2 caps of Blue and Gray Bore Cleaner,and 2 caps of Ballistol . I just recently discovered Ballistol and I like it. If you don't have Blue and Gray then you can mix it with ivory soap but you'll have to adjust the ratio to your liking. Then swab your barrel w/ pure ballistol --or a non petroleum lube if you prefer,after it's dried of course. My wife is goin to change my name to WBHickup.

June 6, 2009, 08:38 PM	#30
Smokin' gun Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Posts: 121	sorry===crs again===4 caps of Blue and Gray to one quart of water.3 caps of ballistol

June 6, 2009, 08:45 PM	#31
Smokin' gun Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Posts: 121	sorry crs again -hell maybe worst than that! 4 caps of blue and gray and 3 caps of ballistol to one quart.

June 8, 2009, 04:14 PM	#35
Smokin' gun Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Posts: 121	Lavender will cut the smell but I don't know if it's good for guns. A shaving product "The art of Shaving" makes a pre oil for your face and the main ingredients are olive and castor. But it contains lavender!! It's greasy and has a neutral smell since it has lavender. And they sell it for $25+ for a 3 oz bottle!!!??. You can get all these at the drug store for pocket change. But the lavender takes out that smell. But again---is lavender good for guns? I don't know.

June 8, 2009, 09:11 PM	#36
Smokin' gun Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Posts: 121	T17 breach plug grease in a small tube is the best I have found. It's fairly expensive and the color is amost turquoise. Put just a little on the plunger, loading lever spring/ hammer hand and sear. Ballestol works for eveberthin else. Olive oil is for cooking. But what did they do in the day. Did they oil w/ petroleum--or melted beef fat. I bet they used the same stuff they greased trains--but I'm just a guessin.

June 9, 2009, 08:44 PM	#42
Smokin' gun Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Posts: 121	I was just guessing about oil in the day. They had petroleum based oils or trains and steamships wouldn't go too far. I have an original 1849 pocket that still cocks and the steel is strong. Big waggon wheel on the cylinder. I wonder who used it-how he used it and greased it. I can only imagine. Maybe I can tell everyone Doc Holliday sold it to Wild Bill.LOL but the inside of the barrel still sparkles like a new one. It cocks in line but of course there is an excessive gap since the cylynder is loose. I could stone it to where it would fit snug but my better sense says--leave it alone.