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Old March 12, 2009, 10:54 PM   #1
chasekerion4
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Gun printing?

Greetings everyone.

First post here, but I've been on here for awhile now. Lots of great info to be found on this site.

Forgive me if this sounds like a really dumb question, but I live in Indiana where open carry is allowed, and am not familiar with all 50 states laws.

I read a lot of posts of people complaining about their gun "printing" while concealed. Does it honestly make a difference? What I mean is some people PREFER open carry if it's allowed in their state, but if you're in a state where concealed only is the law, doesn't that simply mean that the gun can't be displayed? Do any states have anything on the books to where a gun "print" is illegal?

The point to my question is that if, for example, you would LIKE to open carry, but your state doesn't allow it, wouldn't you WANT a print if it falls within the law?

Thanks in advance for the reponses.
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Old March 12, 2009, 11:11 PM   #2
CortJestir
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Technically, I live in an open carry state meaning there are no laws on the books in Connecticut (that I know of) that specifically prohibit my carrying openly. However, you can be cited for breach of peace if someone calls the police to report "a man with a gun". Breach of peace is a misdemeanor offense in CT and a misdemeanor can result in the loss or suspension of your CCW permit. The same thing would apply to printing.

So here in the Nutmeg State, open carry is within the law, but ill-advised if you want to keep your guns. Intentional printing is, therefore, just as ill-advised.
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Old March 12, 2009, 11:27 PM   #3
madmag
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I have a SC CWP. It is not allowed to print here, that means you should not wear a tight shirt that plainly shows the outline of the gun. But on the practical side if it just looks like a lump then you will not be bothered.

In cool weather no problem, I just wear a light jacket. In the summer I wear a loose fitting shirt not tucked in my belt. Anyway, almost everyone has a cell phone making a bulge...so who knows.

Oh, I forgot. I am older and have some belly overhang. My wife says she can't tell where the belly ends and the gun begins.
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Old March 12, 2009, 11:33 PM   #4
Sgt Pepper
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here in texas, "concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernable to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

if by printing, you mean that the gun is covered by a thin white t-shirt - that probably is not concealed. personally, i have to go out of my way for my gun to "print" a full profile such that someone looking would know or immediately suspect a gun at first glance/thought. for me printing typically occurs as a corner of the gun is poking out from my shirt. etc., such that it may appear that something is under my shirt. that's not openly discernable.

in texas, you can "open carry" long guns, however, you must be careful not to "display it in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm." notice the word "intended" is missing from that phrase.
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Old March 12, 2009, 11:58 PM   #5
chasekerion4
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Wow, this kind of just blows my mind.

For the options available for "concealed carry", it sure seems like many folks have to go out of your way to completely conceal a weapon.

I know there could be a debate about whether or not OC is even a good idea in the first place, but it seems like many of these states are making it tough on the "good guys".

Don't get me wrong, I know concealed weapons can still be drawn quickly, however, the mere fact that the gun is concealed can also be a slow-down under the tougher scenarios of SD. What if that split second, to where you have to lift up your shirt to get to your gun, or maybe your body is positioned just the right way making your IWB gun harder to draw, or drawing the gun from your ankle holster, is a split second you TRULY need to defend yourself.

I guess my point is that if, as a state, you're going to make it legal to carry, make it as easy as possible for one to defend themselves if the situation warrants.
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Old March 13, 2009, 02:08 AM   #6
fomalley
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"Concealed"

I live in Texas also. Sgt Pepper nicely described our laws, which are similar to those in many other "carry" states. I think part of the purpose of the requirement to conceal is to disallow any practice of intimidating others by letting them know you have a handgun - which can alarm some people and provoke others. The purpose of having a license is to have the ability to protect one's self or others, not to "send a message" that you should not be messed with.
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Old March 13, 2009, 04:12 AM   #7
blume357
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Just to clear one thing up...

There is no open carry in S.C. but .. printing is 'allowed' in S.C. In S.C. the original posters statement of: "the gun can't be displayed" is more accurate.
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Old March 13, 2009, 07:43 AM   #8
Sgt Pepper
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to follow up fomalley's comments, a person licensed to carry only violates the law if they intentionally allow their concealed weapon to be displayed. if you are "printing" on purpose, then you might be in trouble, as opposed to the guy who as he reaches for the soda bottles on the top shelf, his shirt/jacket rises up/flaps open, exposing his handgun.
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Old March 13, 2009, 08:22 AM   #9
Keltyke
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"Printing" makes a BIG difference, depending on the laws in your state.

Some states are VERY strict, some aren't. In SC, as long as it's not recognizable as a gun, it's ok. The words "...as long as an effort is being made to conceal..." have been used. SC used to be very strict on "flashing" (accidental, brief exposure), too, but they've slacked off on that.

Some states have big differences in open and concealed carry, too. You must either carry open or concealed, not a little bit of both, and you usually must have a permit to carry concealed, even if open carry doesn't require one. I don't know if any state requires a permit to carry openly.
A "print" that can be recognized as a gun is usually illegal under concealed carry laws, even if open carry is legal.

If I'm carrying concealed, I do NOT want a print, even if my state has open carry laws. When carrying concealed, your best weapon is surprise. When carrying open, your best weapon is deterrent. I prefer to carry open - it's easier and you have more holster/clothing options. Unfortunately, open carry isn't legal here, yet.
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Old March 13, 2009, 08:49 AM   #10
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Kentucky is an open carry state and there is no law against printing. When I carry concealed, I carry it concealed and I try to print as little as possible. In my opinion, no one should know that I am carrying. To me, even with a CCW, you should seek to avoid trouble. Intentionally carrying a CCW with the intent of printing since open carry isn't legals seems to be drawing more attention to yourself than needed.
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Old March 13, 2009, 09:18 AM   #11
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I dress to fit the ocassion. Sperry top sider shoes, Docker pants, and a T-shirt under a Tommy Bahama shirt that conceals a XD40 sub compact in IWB holster at the one o'clock position. The CCW at one o'clock rules out any hugs from the lady friends in public.
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Old March 14, 2009, 02:49 PM   #12
Sgt Pepper
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Chuck, you could always just say, "No, that's not a gun in my pocket, I'm just really happy to see you."

It's better than when I get the social hugs and their hand lands on the piece in my 5 o'clock position!
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Old March 14, 2009, 07:33 PM   #13
rburch
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Quote:
I know concealed weapons can still be drawn quickly, however, the mere fact that the gun is concealed can also be a slow-down under the tougher scenarios of SD. What if that split second, to where you have to lift up your shirt to get to your gun, is a split second you TRULY need to defend yourself.
You're looking at that wrong. What is this scenario where you need a split second faster draw?

In all of them I can think of, having the gun out where everybody can see it would only make things worse.
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Old March 14, 2009, 07:45 PM   #14
SigfanTN
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Quote:
I don't know if any state requires a permit to carry openly.
Tennessee requires a permit to carry a handgun. It is not a CCP, rather it is a HCP (handgun carry permit). There is no distinction between open or concealed carry. If you have the permit, you are legal either way.
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Old March 14, 2009, 08:24 PM   #15
Keltyke
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Quote:
What is this scenario where you need a split second faster draw?
Situational awareness prevents the need for a Wyatt Earp quick draw. Your hand on the grip under your shirt gives you an extra second. Willingness to draw BEFORE the absolute last second need is also a big help. Your first option is to draw. Your last option is to shoot. Sometimes the mere fact of drawing negates the situation.

Thanks for the info SigfanTN, may move there. Do you know if that applies to a visiting resident of a state that has reciprocity with TN?
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Old March 14, 2009, 09:58 PM   #16
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chasekerion4, can you please let me know where you read anything that said open carry is ok in Indiana?

I think your mistaken, I've had a ccp in indiana for 30 years and never heard it was ok to OC.
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Old March 14, 2009, 10:10 PM   #17
Bear 45/70
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Go here to find out about OC in your state.

http://www.opencarry.org/maps.html
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Old March 15, 2009, 09:54 AM   #18
chris in va
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I just moved to KY. One of the factors in moving here was their OC/CC laws. You can be a male version of Marylin Monroe with the shirt blowing up and they don't care.
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Old March 15, 2009, 12:25 PM   #19
cschwanz
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i too live in IN (Fort Wayne) and carry on a regular basis. i worry about printing, not necessarily from a legal issues, but rather just the idea of other ppl knowing its there. its nobody's business but my own whether i have a gun on me or not.
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