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Old March 1, 2009, 12:26 PM   #1
chris in va
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My friend's transformation

A long time ago, my friend had a gun pointed at her head, and was nervous about firearms from that event.

I got my CC permit about 5 years ago. She wasn't against it considering all the criminal activity going on in the local area, but was wary regardless. She'd make comments in public like, "GOT YOUR GUN ON YOU?" "You're so paranoid carrying" etc. I was pretty upset about various things that were said.

Now she wants her own permit. As a matter of fact, she said last night, "I've been thinking, can I keep your P11 on my nightstand? If someone breaks in, you may not hear me calling you for help". Apparently the little gun is no longer mine, technically.

So I'm sitting here on the 'puter as she's watching Lifetime. Some cheesy movie is on about a woman being the victim of a breakin/assault with resulting alarm system being installed and promises from the LEO's that "we'll get the guy, don't worry".

My friend is yelling at the TV, "If you had a gun this wouldn't have happened!!" "Should've dialed 1911 first!" etc.

What a difference. Thing is, I didn't really pressure her to do anything, she just takes notice of what actually happens around her instead of blindly traipsing through la-la land.

EDIT: To further clarify, she's quite a good shooter with a lot of range time under her belt. She particularly likes Tannerite...

Last edited by chris in va; March 1, 2009 at 09:54 PM.
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Old March 1, 2009, 01:33 PM   #2
Waterengineer
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Take her shooting. Teach her gun safety. Then let her pick the gun SHE wants.

Also, I am somewhat ambivelant on women owning firearms for SD purposes. If they want to own them and feel empowered great but I am somehow under the impression that there is documented events of guns being taken from them, then used against them.

Can we have a few LEO's chime in on this. Thanks.
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Old March 1, 2009, 02:07 PM   #3
chris in va
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Quote:
Take her shooting. Teach her gun safety. Then let her pick the gun SHE wants
Done, done...and done. Been many times to the gun range. She especially likes my HiPoint carbine and Sig 220.

She's no wilting flower, believe me. Care to cite references to your claim that guns get taken away from women?
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Old March 1, 2009, 02:48 PM   #4
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Also, I am somewhat ambivelant on women owning firearms for SD purposes. If they want to own them and feel empowered great but I am somehow under the impression that there is documented events of guns being taken from them, then used against them.
What a remarkable post, expressing quaint but entirely offensive ideas.

Every animal on the planet, from the lowliest worm up to the largest carnivore, has a built-in reflex to protect its own life. Human beings have this reflex, too. Even the female ones.

Here's a link for you: http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefe...ls/female.html

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Last edited by pax; March 1, 2009 at 02:56 PM. Reason: spelling.
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Old March 1, 2009, 03:20 PM   #5
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Its all about "mindset"

Meaning your state of mind, and determination. And that is something you need to get straight with yourself before you choose a gun for personal protection. If there is the least doubt in your mind that you could not shoot when you needed to, then some other means of personal protection is what you should choose.

Guns have been taken away from women. Guns have been taken away from men. The sex of the gunowner has NOTHING to do with it. The idea that women, as a group, should not have guns because they are too "sensitive" to use them, and they would be taken away as a result, is both offensive, and ignorant of reality. It is stereotyping on its basest level. Waterengineer, you may not have meant it that way, but that's the way it comes across.

Chris, I am glad your friend has become aware of life as it really is. In addition to gun safety and shooting, make sure she understands ALL of the legal rights and responsibilities that using a gun in self defense involves. Make sure she understands the law where she lives. In some places you still have a legal requirement to retreat (even from your own home) before deadly force is justified. Many other places do not require that. Get her to examine all the possible situations, and understand them. Many CCW classes cover this in depth. Even if she has no desire to CCW, the information is still useful and valuable.
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Old March 1, 2009, 03:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Also, I am somewhat ambivelant on women owning firearms for SD purposes. If they want to own them and feel empowered great but I am somehow under the impression that there is documented events of guns being taken from them, then used against them.
INCOMING! Take Cover!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pax
What a remarkable post, expressing quaint but entirely offensive ideas.

Every animal on the planet, from the lowliest worm up to the largest carnivore, has a built-in reflex to protect its own life. Human beings have this reflex, too. Even the female ones.
Nice reply pax. Eloquent, succinct, to the point, and best of all that biting wit.

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Old March 1, 2009, 03:33 PM   #7
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"Also, I am somewhat ambivelant on women owning firearms for SD purposes. If they want to own them and feel empowered great but I am somehow under the impression that there is documented events of guns being taken from them, then used against them."

Yeah, as if no guy has EVER had a firearm taken from and used against him, right?

Men are just hemanly creatures of ultimate power and might.

Sweet zombie baby Jesus...
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Old March 1, 2009, 03:44 PM   #8
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waterengineer,

there are plenty (and I mean lots and lots) of well-documented "events of guns being taken away" from big, burly male police officers, and then used against them. A significant percentage of LEOs killed in the line of duty are shot with their own guns.

By your logic (or lack thereof), you should be ambivalent on anyone owning firearms for SD purposes.
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Old March 1, 2009, 04:11 PM   #9
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Chris,

Been there, done that. I had a g/f who was nearly blind to things going on around her until she was in our bank one day talking to the loan officer about paying off a loan early. Three men entered, brandished guns and robbed the bank. One poor soul was kicked in the face because the dust on the floor made him cough.

After that, it seemed that the lights went on and she started really absorbing some of the things I'd been telling her. Took her shooting and found what she liked and she bought one with the birthday money I gave her. Can't really carry in CA, but if anyone breaks in to her place in the future, I know she can hold a 1.5" group at 25 yards with her Model 66.

For guys trying to get their ladies into shooting, I recommend talking with your local rangemasters and finding out what time of day during the week is very very slow. Then arrange a day to take her to the range and use a .22 handgun. Focus on her breathing. Tell her to take a deep breath and relax. Then another breath, let it out, squeeze and fire. Take a deep breath after the shot to relax. One shot every 30 seconds or so. Let her increase the speed as she gets comfortable. Once she's relaxed into it, then you can give her minor corrections to improve accuracy if needed. She should walk away feeling relaxed and good. And that's just what you want.
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Old March 1, 2009, 06:56 PM   #10
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Chris,

I have to say that is great news about your convert friend. I have offered to take several people (men and woman) to shoot. Only one has taken me up on it and that was because he was preparing for firearms qualification at his job as a corrections officer.

My wife has no interest in shooting despite the fact that her dad was an avid hunter, police chief, and strong supporter of 2A rights. Another female friend of ours is a staunch liberal. I thought about introducing her to shooting with a .22 pistol, and I offered same. She hasn't taken me up on it, but since I made the offer she has said some things that make me think having her around any firearm is a bad idea.

She said something along the lines of "I would probably shoot myself" or maybe it was "shoot person xxxx". I'm not sure if it was a typical far left response to firearms, or if she missed some medication that day. I suppose part of it is that she associates guns with killing/death and figured if a gun is going to be fired, then death must follow. I'm not sure, but it is outside my realm of thinking.

Anyhow...congrats on winning some ground for the pro-gun crowd.

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Old March 1, 2009, 07:37 PM   #11
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"Remind me not to ever go break into your house!" Said to me, recently, at the range. I'd had a satisfactory hour or so with a revolver, a couple of semi-automatics, and a shotgun.

Nobody has a right to take anything from me, and if they try, I'm going to fight as hard as I can, like Pax's cornered cat.
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Old March 1, 2009, 09:57 PM   #12
chris in va
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Quote:
despite the fact that her dad was an avid hunter, police chief,
Ironically her father was also Chief of Police in New Jersey. I have his Chief's Special and the small pocket badge he carried.
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Old March 1, 2009, 10:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Also, I am somewhat ambivelant on women owning firearms for SD purposes. If they want to own them and feel empowered great but I am somehow under the impression that there is documented events of guns being taken from them, then used against them
My GF wanted a gun to protect herself but then she came to her senses. We got her a whislte she hangs off her apron.

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Old March 1, 2009, 10:53 PM   #14
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We had a woman save her life here in Northern Virginia about fifteen years ago,because she armed herself with a revolver when her boyfreind went to jail.

He said he was going to kill her when he got out.

Well,he got fooled.

He broke into her apartment with a knife and she sent him to the big house in the sky.

I am very glad when I see any woman getting armed and accepting the fact that she needs and has gotten training.

As much as a Hi-Point would do for her,I hope that you convince her to get a more expensive handgun.

BUT-a HiPoint handgun is certainly better than her holding a blow whistle to try to scare off an attacker.

The bad guy she kills-if that ever has to happen- might be the guy that would hurt my wife or god children next.

And when all the women are armed and trained-the scumbags will have to buy a girlie magazine or face the bullets.
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Old March 1, 2009, 11:47 PM   #15
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My GF wanted a gun to protect herself but then she came to her senses. We got her a whislte she hangs off her apron.


I hope if she ever drops it she doesn't step on it; that might hurt with bare feet and all. And if she's pregnant she might even slip and fall.
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Old March 2, 2009, 12:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
My GF wanted a gun to protect herself but then she came to her senses. We got her a whislte she hangs off her apron.


I hope if she ever drops it she doesn't step on it; that might hurt with bare feet and all. And if she's pregnant she might even slip and fall.
There aren't that many SD situations that occur between the sink and the laundry room anyway.
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Old March 2, 2009, 12:21 AM   #17
B.N.Real
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You might be surprised at how quietly a determined bad guy can get into a house or an apartment.

Makes me see red when they do what they do to their victims and people try to analyze where the bad guy was coming from.

Any woman would be well served by having a 642 Smith on hand at almost all times.

Heck so would we.
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Old March 2, 2009, 12:35 AM   #18
Shadi Khalil
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I hope if she ever drops it she doesn't step on it; that might hurt with bare feet and all. And if she's pregnant she might even slip and fall.
HaHaHAHAHA!
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Old March 2, 2009, 12:57 AM   #19
chris in va
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You guys crack me up.
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Old March 2, 2009, 07:29 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterengineer
Also, I am somewhat ambivelant on women owning firearms for SD purposes. If they want to own them and feel empowered great but I am somehow under the impression that there is documented events of guns being taken from them, then used against them.
If I arrange to get my hands on a Simunitions-converted Glock, would you like to come do some weapons-retention drills?

Dress heavily, because Simunitions hurt like heck at close range.

It'll be fun! We could put the videos on YouTube!
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Old March 2, 2009, 10:50 AM   #21
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Hey, Kathy - is this a case that the article I sent you would have predicted? I admit I haven't read it yet. I spent yesterday at a three gun match and then went on a hike with my wife and then we went for pizza and beer and I'm toast.

So how come Dr. Gratia-Hupp was instrumental in getting the TX CHL bill passed? Or the person who saved the day at the Colorado church was female - while the Tacoma Mall Male (clever use of words here) froze up.
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Old March 2, 2009, 10:58 AM   #22
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You either are the prey or the hunter--- Gender doesn't matter. I wish more women would take up serious shooting.
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Old March 2, 2009, 11:01 AM   #23
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Glenn ~

Oddly, I was about to drop you a PM to say so! Yes, it's rather directly addressed in the study you sent me. Even though the researcher's primary focus appeared to be non-firearm self-defense, some of what's being said here is exactly the type of thing that study addressed. See the discussion under the "It's Impossible" header.

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Old March 2, 2009, 11:13 AM   #24
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Wow! Ever want to get all the mods in one thread? Just make an insulting comment about women and guns.

I've never seen so many bold names in one thread He he..
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Old March 2, 2009, 11:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peetzakilla
Wow! Ever want to get all the mods in one thread? Just make an insulting comment about women and guns.

I've never seen so many bold names in one thread He he..
No, "insulting comments about women and guns" will only get most of the staff involved.

Now, if you made a comment saying "(Blacks/Jews/Italians/left-handers/people with freckles) shouldn't have guns," you might get an even better turnout.
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