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Old February 26, 2009, 01:21 PM   #26
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If you want information on how bad it is on the border, check out this link. It is unbelievable to me that we don't here more about this in the news. No doubt, it is a war zone.
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Old February 26, 2009, 11:12 PM   #27
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Yeah and obama says that more gun control here will help stabalize the air down there, as they supposedly buy guns here and take em down there. Just take a look at that picture and see if it looks like they need guns from us
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Old February 26, 2009, 11:56 PM   #28
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Beware, the anti's (including the Mexican Government) are saying the guns come from the north side of the border.

I think they come from Venezuela in order to make money for a very poor economy and to destabilize a country on the U.S. border. I'd like to see some of those weapons to see if they have Chinese or Russian marks.
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Old February 27, 2009, 12:20 AM   #29
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Don't worry, we will never let them get past Albuquerque. -supergas452M
That's very true, especially the South Valley. The poo will definitely hit the fan down there.
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Old February 27, 2009, 01:12 AM   #30
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That story was interesting, but also full of biased lies regarding the source of the guns...
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Old February 27, 2009, 11:06 AM   #31
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Danger from Mexico

I live just a few short miles from the border. The situation in Mexico is probably more precarious than any of you imagine, and it's certainly much more unstable than it's being reported in the news media here in the states. Mexico is imploding. The Mexican federal government has rather tenuous control over a number of cities where the drug cartels are strong. The cartels have so much money that many federal troops and law officers are bought and paid for by the drug lords. They wear the uniform, but they're loyal to their paymasters.

Crime is so rampant and apprehensions so rare that many otherwise law-abiding folks in Mexico are now engaging in petty crimes and even kidnapping because they know there will never be any consequences.

While I doubt that the violence will spill over into the US in any big way, it IS the reason that I got my concealed carry license and now pack daily. The drug cartels are not in any way interested in having shootouts with American citizens in the US. The violence they cause here in the States is against their drug rivals or rogue members of their own organization, so far.

But I would caution everyone to stay the hell away from Mexico for the forseeable future. The situation is chaotic, unpredictable, and hazardous. It's a completely different ballgame when you're on their turf. I think any US citizen in Mexico is at risk. For kidnapping or potentially worse.
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Old February 27, 2009, 01:10 PM   #32
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My girl and I were thinking of having our honeymoon in Mexico. I changed that as soon as I started paying attention to all these stories from the news, but mostly from you first hand experiencers. We've decided to honeymoon here in Colorado. Keep our money spending local, keep our friends and family closer, and we wont have problems keeping our pistols on our hips. Best of luck to you near the border. Keep safe and aware.
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Old February 27, 2009, 01:36 PM   #33
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That story was interesting, but also full of biased lies regarding the source of the guns...
And it came from
Maybe it's a reprint from somewhere else.

edit: Ah, yes it came from Fox News.
Guns don't kill people, Jack Bauer kills people.
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Old February 27, 2009, 08:37 PM   #34
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The Mexican federal government has rather tenuous control over a number of cities where the drug cartels are strong. The cartels have so much money that many federal troops and law officers are bought and paid for by the drug lords. They wear the uniform, but they're loyal to their paymasters.
And thanks to Mexican GUN CONTROL the citizens, or should we call them serfs or peasants now, can only obey either the Narco-terrorist and their paid off police, or the police/military, which ever is present at that moment.

And that's the kind of situation Obama and the liberals would have us be in!!!

Think of Vietnam and being a villager and you get the picture.
“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides
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Old February 27, 2009, 10:10 PM   #35
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This is all lies Mexico is a peaceful country none of this stuff is happening only the police and military are allowed to have guns more powerful than a .38 spl. so their is no crime.

Sarcasm off :barf:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas
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Old February 28, 2009, 02:13 PM   #36
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Most of you have no idea....

You shouldn't have to worry about that situation for another five years.... probably.
If you really have to fight, a pistol will be worthless. Even with a rifle, being outnumbered like that, you should duck out and run.

If something like this ever happens that far into the states, either 1) the US declares war on mexico the next day or 2) you were involved in something shady.
It already is happening in Az. Recently the Mexican military was over 50 miles north of the border and held the Border Patrol agents at gunpoint for over an hour.
The Feds will not declare war on Mexico.
Many Arizonans and Texans are aware, from personal experience, that you can be minding your own business and be doing nothing illegal or shady, but you get caught in the middle of someone else's gunfight. We have had incidents over 100 miles north of the border; they are on the news at least once every month.

Many people up north like to criticize Sheriff Joe Arpaio for his raids on illegals. But they do not understand the depth and scope of the problem that we face every week. We have freeway shoot outs on a regular basis. Smugglers, coyotes, illegals having shoot outs while racing 80 mph through traffic.
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Old February 28, 2009, 02:29 PM   #37
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Appropriate screen name for you.

onthejon55 wrote:
Drug cartels are not in the business of laying waste to random people for no reason. If they make it all the way to Colorado they have a very specific reason for being there and Imo guessing you aren't it. Once you're at home just wait. The police/military will have it taken care of in no time.
Your head must be way up there cause that post was so full of ****. Come live down here for a year and see what it is REALLY like dealing with the illegals and drug dealers. Not only do they not care who they kill, they will kill you just for fun. Most Mexicans believe the U.S. stole Texas and California. They openly say that and say that they will take back everything from San Francisco to Louisiana.
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Old February 28, 2009, 02:35 PM   #38
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For the really stubborn non-believers out there.

Check out this:

Raising the ire of illegal-immigration opponents in Los Angeles recently was this billboard advertising a Spanish-language TV news show. It depict two newscasters posed in front of the L.A. skyline, to which a Mexico City landmark has been added. In the words "Los Angeles, CA" above their heads, the "CA" is crossed off and replaced with "Mexico" in bold letters. The other words read: "News 62" and "Your City, Your Team."

Los Angeles, Mexico

Investors Business Daily*
May 5, 2005

Immigration: While California's governor is accused of racism for advocating a secure border with Mexico, a Los Angeles billboard provides a revealing glimpse into the mind-set of those advocating open borders.

In a recent radio interview, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger committed a couple of faux pas (or however you say that in Spanish). First, he said the U.S. government was failing to secure the border with Mexico. Second, he said the Arizona Minutemen, a bunch of old men in lawn chairs, "have done a terrific job."

"Shameful" was the reaction of Nativo Lopez, state national president of the Mexican American Political Association. Schwarzenegger's comments, he said, were "nothing short of base racism."

The Los Angeles Times chimed in with an editorial criticizing the governor for these and other remarks. The newspaper also chided him for failing to see the "humor" in a billboard advertising a Spanish-language newscast.

The billboard, which has since been removed, showed the Angel of Independence, a well-known monument in Mexico City, in the center of the LA skyline, with "CA" crossed out after "Los-Angeles" and the word "Mexico" in bold red letters put in its place (see photo above).

"I think they should take it down immediately," Schwarzenegger said in the radio interview, contending it encouraged illegal immigration. The LA. Times response was to opine that "as someone born and raised in the shadow of the Third Reich, he should know better than to be fanning this anti-foreigner frenzy."

But is insisting that U.S. immigration laws be enforced racist and anti-immigrant? And why, exactly, did Clear Channel Communications and the Spanish-language TV station think the billboard would appeal to their current and potential viewing audience?

The fact is that many Hispanic activists, Mexican citizens and perhaps even members of the Mexican government refuse to accept the legality of our 1845 annexation of Texas, the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo after the Mexican-American War, or the 18511 Gadsden Purchase.

One of these activists is Charles Trujillo, a professor at the University of New Mexico. He predicts a new, sovereign Hispanic nation within this century encompassing much of the American southwest and part of northern Mexico. States have the right to secede under our original Articles of Confederation, he contends, and this will be accomplished by the electoral pressure of future majority Hispanic populations in these states.

The Hispanic student activist group known as MECHa, an acronym for Movimento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán (Chicano Student Movement of Aztlán) has spent the last three decades indoctrinating Latino students on U.S. campuses.

It claims that California, Arizona, Mexico, Texas and southern Colorado were stolen and should be returned to their rightful owners, the people of Mexico, under the name "Nation of Aztlán." Aztlán is the mythical place where the Aztecs are said to have originated.

Few caught the significance of the words of then-Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo before the National Council of La Raza in Chicago on July 27,1997: "I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders."

Current President Vicente Fox repeated this line during a 2001 visit to the U.S., when he called for open borders and endorsed Mexico's new dual citizenship law.

A June 2002 Zogby poll found that the majority of Mexican citizens agree with him and hold the view that, since the Southwest U.S. really belongs to Mexico, they do not need permission to enter. The poll found that 58% of Mexicans agreed with the statement, "The territory of the United States' Southwest rightfully belongs to Mexico."

Perhaps it was that audience the billboards were designed to reach.
And a lot more here:
This is the real deal people.
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Old February 28, 2009, 02:36 PM   #39
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And then read this:

Mexican drug violence spills over into the US

By ALICIA A. CALDWELL – Feb 9, 2009

Just as government officials had feared, the drug violence raging in Mexico is spilling over into the United States.

U.S. authorities are reporting a spike in killings, kidnappings and home invasions connected to Mexico's murderous cartels. And to some policymakers' surprise, much of the violence is happening not in towns along the border, where it was assumed the bloodshed would spread, but a considerable distance away, in places such as Phoenix and Atlanta.

Investigators fear the violence could erupt elsewhere around the country because the Mexican cartels are believed to have set up drug-dealing operations all over the U.S., in such far-flung places as Anchorage, Alaska; Boston; and Sioux Falls, S.D.

"The violence follows the drugs," said David Cuthbertson, agent in charge of the FBI's office in the border city of El Paso, Texas.

The violence takes many forms: Drug customers who owe money are kidnapped until they pay up. Cartel employees who don't deliver the goods or turn over the profits are disciplined through beatings, kidnappings or worse. And drug smugglers kidnap illegal immigrants in clashes with human smugglers over the use of secret routes from Mexico.

So far, the violence is nowhere near as grisly as the mayhem in Mexico, which has witnessed beheadings, assassinations of police officers and soldiers, and mass killings in which the bodies were arranged to send a message. But law enforcement officials worry the violence on this side could escalate.

"They are capable of doing about anything," said Rusty Payne, a Drug Enforcement Administration spokesman in Washington. "When you are willing to chop heads off, put them in an ice chest and drop them off at a police precinct, or roll a head into a disco, put beheadings on YouTube as a warning," very little is off limits.

In an apartment near Birmingham, Ala., police found five men with their throats slit in August. They had apparently been tortured with electric shocks before being killed in a murder-for-hire orchestrated by a Mexican drug organization over a drug debt of about $400,000.

In Phoenix, 150 miles north of the Mexican border, police have reported a sharp increase in kidnappings and home invasions, with about 350 each year for the last two years, and say the majority were committed at the behest of the Mexican drug gangs.

In June, heavily armed men stormed a Phoenix house and fired randomly, killing one person. Police believe it was the work of Mexican drug organizations.

Authorities in Atlanta are also seeing an increase in drug-related kidnappings tied to Mexican cartels. Estimates of how many such crimes are being committed are hard to come by because many victims are connected to the cartels and unwilling to go to the police, said Rodney G. Benson, DEA agent in charge in Atlanta.

Agents said they have rarely seen such brutality in the U.S. since the "Miami Vice" years of the 1980s, when Colombian cartels had the corner on the cocaine market in Florida.

Last summer, Atlanta-area police found a Dominican man who had been beaten, bound, gagged and chained to a wall in a quiet, middle-class neighborhood in Lilburn, Ga. The 31-year-old Rhode Island resident owed $300,000 to Mexico's Gulf Cartel, Benson said. The Gulf Cartel, based in Matamoros just south of the Texas border, is one of the most ruthless of the Mexican organizations that deal drugs such as cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine and heroin.

"He was shackled to a wall and one suspect had an AK-47. The guy was in bad shape," Benson said. "I have no doubt in my mind if that ransom wasn't paid, he was going to be killed."

In July, Atlanta-area police shot and killed a suspected kidnapper while he was trying to pick up a $2 million ransom owed to his cartel bosses, Benson said.

State and federal governments have sent millions of dollars to local law enforcement along the Mexican border to help fend off spillover drug crime. But investigators believe Arizona and Atlanta are seeing the worst of the violence because they are major drug distribution hubs thanks to their webs of interstate highways.

In fact, drug officials have dubbed Atlanta "the new Southwest border," said Jack Killorin, a former federal drug agent and director of the Atlanta region's High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area task force.

El Paso, population 600,000, is only a quarter-mile away from Mexico's Ciudad Juarez, which has seen open gun battles and 1,700 murders in the last year. But El Paso remains one of America's safest cities, something Cuthbertson said is probably a result of the huge law enforcement presence in town, including thousands of Border Patrol and customs agents.

In the past year, more than 5,000 people have been killed across Mexico in a power struggle among Mexico's drug cartels and ferocious fighting between them and the Mexican government. The cartels have established operations in at least 230 U.S. cities, according to the Justice Department's National Drug Intelligence Center.

Payne said the U.S. and Mexico are working together to pressure the warring cartels. Payne cited the extradition of high-level drug suspects — four members of the Arellano Felix cartel in Tijuana were brought to the U.S. in December — and the capture or killings of several other top cartel leaders across Mexico in the past year.

"We have to make sure that we attack these criminal organizations at every level so that we are safer not only in Mexico and on the Southwest border, but here in the rest of the country," Payne said.

While some Americans may feel victimized by the spillover of violence, others are contributing to it. Americans provide 95 percent of the weapons used by the cartel, according to U.S. authorities. And Americans are the cartels' best customers, sending an estimated $28.5 billion in drug-sale proceeds across the Mexico border each year.
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Old February 28, 2009, 02:46 PM   #40
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The AVERAGE Mexican population in Kali schools is now 48%...We HAVE been invaded...
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Old February 28, 2009, 03:12 PM   #41
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I've been watching this for two days, waiting for it to turn into a Tactics and Training discussion, at least tangentally. No joy.

Closed as off topic.

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