S&W Issues Recall for Walther PPK/PPKs Models

FrankZappa · February 20, 2009, 07:50 PM

S&W Issues Recall for Walther PPK/PPKs Models
This is dated today 2/20/09

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...ectionId=10506
=

Smith & Wesson has identified a condition that may exist in certain PPK and PPK/S pistols which may permit a round to be discharged without the trigger being pulled. When the manual safety is disengaged, Smith & Wesson’s Product Engineering Group has determined that the possibility exists in certain firearms that lowering the hammer may cause a chambered round to fire.

This recall applies to all Walther PPK and PPK/S pistols manufactured by Smith & Wesson from March 21, 2002, until February 3, 2009. The Serial Numbers of the pistol subject to this recall are as follows:

BAB 0010-BAB 9999
BAC 0000-BAC 9999
BAD 0000-BAD 9999
LTD 0000-LTD 0499
PPK 0001-PPK 1500
BAE 0000-BAE 9999
BAF 0000-BAF 9999
WLE 0001-WLE 0459
BAH 0000-BAH 9999
BAJ 0000-BAJ 9999
BAK 0000-BAK 9999
REP 0026-REP 0219
BAL 0000-BAL 5313
BAM 0000-BAM 1320

Wildalaska · February 20, 2009, 08:00 PM

This needs to be stickied!

WildthemusharkarpeggioAlaska ™

Playboypenguin · February 20, 2009, 08:00 PM

I can't get that link to work for me.

Wildalaska · February 20, 2009, 08:10 PM

Here ya go

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...ectionId=10506

Wildimonitlikeacollectoronsupermanno1Alaska ™

Playboypenguin · February 20, 2009, 08:13 PM

Thanks, I had already searched for it myself and filled out the recall request. One of my guns was hit (the PPK) but not my PPK/S. The PPK/S had a serial number of LTD06XX.

Thank goodness I always decocked it over a bucket of sand next to my safe. It could have apparently gone off at any time while doing so.

Playboypenguin · February 20, 2009, 08:37 PM

I would be willing to bet that it is an issue with an individual piece. They probably have had a couple of failures of a particular piece made by a particular supplier and they have to recall all of the pistols that incorporated them to be safe.

nate45 · February 20, 2009, 08:49 PM

I have one of the BAH series PPKs.

Form filled out and UPS pre-paid billable stamp and shipping instructions requested.

Playboypenguin · February 20, 2009, 08:53 PM

Am I reading the report correctly as to believe the issue is that the guns were firing when using the decocker on a live round due to a faulty firing pin block?

nate45 · February 20, 2009, 08:58 PM

Thats what I thought, heck I don't even use the de-cocker or the safety, what am I worried about?

DESCRIPTION OF THE HAZARD: Smith & Wesson has identified a condition that may exist in certain PPK and PPK/S pistols which may permit a round to be discharged without the trigger being pulled. When the manual safety is disengaged, Smith & Wesson’s Product Engineering Group has determined that the possibility exists in certain firearms that lowering the hammer may cause a chambered round to fire.

David the Gnome · February 20, 2009, 09:47 PM

Thanks for the heads up. I got my form submitted.

Edit: This thread should probably get stickied in the semi-auto forum.

kraigwy · February 21, 2009, 12:49 AM

Well POOPIE, I gave mind to my grandaughther, now she's gonna be upset I have to send it back. Wonder what the turnaround will be.

**JohnKSa** · February 21, 2009, 03:07 AM

Let's try to reserve this thread for discussion about the recall.

Divergent rants on the geopolitical theories of gun-buying decision-making and the ethics of name licensing, etc are fodder for other threads.

David the Gnome · February 21, 2009, 09:55 AM

For those of us who are sending our PPK's in, are you guys marking your guns in some way to ensure you get your actual gun and all its parts back? I was thinking of writing my initials inside the frame/slide with a sharpie just to make sure they don't accidentally send me the wrong slide, or at least if they do I'll know. I just remember reading a couple threads during the Ruger LCP recall about people getting the wrong slide back with their guns. My PPK is new and has about 100 rounds through it, I have carried it numerous times but the gun still looks brand new.

lel · February 21, 2009, 12:53 PM

Oh great. I've got two of the little beauties.

HisSoldier · February 21, 2009, 03:34 PM

"When the manual safety is disengaged, Smith & Wesson’s Product Engineering Group has determined that the possibility exists in certain firearms that lowering the hammer may cause a chambered round to fire."

That doesn't sound to me like the gun is firing by the hammer falling as in engaging the safety, it sounds like disengaging the safety after engaging the safety and dropping the hammer on the block of the safety. I can't understand that. How could you lower the hammer after disengaging the safety?

But again, for the record, if you like your PPK series gun lower the hammer with your thumb as the safety drops it, as the safety takes a beating dropping the hammer on it and they have been known to break. I don't know if that pertains to modern S&W guns, but what's it hurt to baby it? The guns that had broken safety firing pin blocks were made long ago in Germany and France, so I can't believe it's related.

hhb · February 21, 2009, 05:52 PM

I tried to fill out the S&W on-line recall form, and it won't accept my serial #. I bought new in December,2002. My serial # is 3XXXBAB. Does the recall affect those with the suffix BAB rather than the prefix BAB? Also, mine is a PPK/s-1 model. m I finally figured out what I was doing wrong on the on-line S&W recall information form. I was putting dashes in the phone number. Tried it with a dash, and it took it with the BAB as a suffix. I got an immediate confirmation number.

bignz · February 23, 2009, 12:17 AM

When you submit your serial number try the letters first: BAB3xxx. That's the way it appears on my gun and it submitted just fine.

bignz · February 23, 2009, 12:21 AM

should have finished reading. I don't know why they listed the letters at the end. As I understand it the letters represent a batch and the numbers further specify the gun. Pre, Suf,... they only use one set of letters.

Is anyone else super excited about getting a gun back with a punch mark in it? Good grief.

bignz · February 23, 2009, 12:33 AM

The description of the problem is a bit mysterious. I'm not sure this is the answer but...

If you use the decocker to bring down the hammer you will find that the trigger is locked back. If with your thumb you then pull the hammer back, you will find that it can be pulled all the way back and will never catch (because the decocker is engaged. If you were to let the hammer go at this point it would travel with full force and strike the block that is just barely holding it back from the pin. Could it be that this force could (1 out of 100000 times) create enough of a shock to jar the pin and discharge the weapon?

If on the other hand you use the decocker to bring the hammer down, and then take it off safe to release the trigger forward, and then return it to safe...you will notice that the hammer cannot be pulled back and thus exerts much less force on the firing pin block if released from essentially a half-cock position.

I am just offering a guess here...not even sure it's a good guess.

hhb · February 23, 2009, 08:43 AM

I just got off the phone with a S&W customer service rep, and he says the 3 letters in the serial number can be either a prefix or a suffix.

HisSoldier · February 24, 2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

The description of the problem is a bit mysterious. I'm not sure this is the answer but...

That makes sense, it could b e that the description is intentionally vague so people will send the guns in to be checked, rather than checking it themselves and leaving S&W in a liability window. If they check it out then they know.

orchidhunter · February 24, 2009, 09:44 AM

S&W has corrected its web site and revised the list of serial numbers to show the 4 numeral followed by 3 alpha designation. The affected pistols for the Walther PPK and PPK/S recall are now listed as follows:

This recall applies to all Walther PPK and PPK/S pistols manufactured by Smith & Wesson from March 21, 2002, until February 3, 2009. The Serial Numbers of the pistol subject to this recall are as follows:

0010BAB - 9999BAB
0000BAC - 9999BAC
0000BAD - 9999BAD
0000LTD - 0499LTD
0001PPK - 1500PPK
0000BAE - 9999BAE
0000BAF - 9999BAF
0001WLE - 0459WLE
0000BAH - 9999BAH
0000BAJ - 9999BAJ
0000BAK - 9999BAK
0026REP - 0219REP
0000BAL - 5313BAL
0000BAM - 1320BAM orchidhunter

Playboypenguin · February 24, 2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

0000LTD - 0499LTD

I wonder why some guns made in this time frame are not effected. I have a gun with the serial number 06xxLTD that was made during those years and it does not seem to be subject to the recall.

orchidhunter · February 24, 2009, 03:49 PM

PBP, "This recall applies to all Walther PPK and PPK/S pistols manufactured by Smith & Wesson from March 21, 2002, until February 3, 2009". If your pistol was manufactured in this time frame, I guess it applies to your pistol. Recall of the recall notice, it will be hard to put any faith in what S&W says or does about this big mess. orchidhunter

Playboypenguin · February 24, 2009, 04:08 PM

It appears serial numbers are pretty much a moot point regarding the recall. I just called and spoke to them and they said the recall effects "ALL" of the guns they have made in the past seven years...with no exceptions.

When I told them my PPK/S was not covered in the range they listed on their website they said they were not aware my gun even existed and that they would do some research and update the website. It appears someone forgot that they made the "Aristocrat" as part of the limited series (LTD) from numbers 0500LTD to 0650LTD.

February 20, 2009, 07:50 PM	#1
FrankZappa Member Join Date: May 31, 2008 Location: Grid Square FN42 Posts: 80	S&W Issues Recall for Walther PPK/PPKs Models S&W Issues Recall for Walther PPK/PPKs Models This is dated today 2/20/09 http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...ectionId=10506 = Smith & Wesson has identified a condition that may exist in certain PPK and PPK/S pistols which may permit a round to be discharged without the trigger being pulled. When the manual safety is disengaged, Smith & Wesson’s Product Engineering Group has determined that the possibility exists in certain firearms that lowering the hammer may cause a chambered round to fire. This recall applies to all Walther PPK and PPK/S pistols manufactured by Smith & Wesson from March 21, 2002, until February 3, 2009. The Serial Numbers of the pistol subject to this recall are as follows: BAB 0010-BAB 9999 BAC 0000-BAC 9999 BAD 0000-BAD 9999 LTD 0000-LTD 0499 PPK 0001-PPK 1500 BAE 0000-BAE 9999 BAF 0000-BAF 9999 WLE 0001-WLE 0459 BAH 0000-BAH 9999 BAJ 0000-BAJ 9999 BAK 0000-BAK 9999 REP 0026-REP 0219 BAL 0000-BAL 5313 BAM 0000-BAM 1320 __________________ "Stupidity is the Most Plentiful Element in the Universe" .......................................................Frank Zappa

February 20, 2009, 08:49 PM	#7
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	I have one of the BAH series PPKs. Form filled out and UPS pre-paid billable stamp and shipping instructions requested. __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

February 20, 2009, 08:58 PM	#9
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	Thats what I thought, heck I don't even use the de-cocker or the safety, what am I worried about? DESCRIPTION OF THE HAZARD: Smith & Wesson has identified a condition that may exist in certain PPK and PPK/S pistols which may permit a round to be discharged without the trigger being pulled. When the manual safety is disengaged, Smith & Wesson’s Product Engineering Group has determined that the possibility exists in certain firearms that lowering the hammer may cause a chambered round to fire. __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

February 20, 2009, 09:47 PM	#10
David the Gnome Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,092	Thanks for the heads up. I got my form submitted. Edit: This thread should probably get stickied in the semi-auto forum. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum.

February 21, 2009, 12:49 AM	#11
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,057	Well POOPIE, I gave mind to my grandaughther, now she's gonna be upset I have to send it back. Wonder what the turnaround will be. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Oct '78 Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

February 20, 2009, 08:00 PM	#2
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	This needs to be stickied! WildthemusharkarpeggioAlaska ™

February 20, 2009, 08:00 PM	#3
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	I can't get that link to work for me.

February 20, 2009, 08:10 PM	#4
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Here ya go http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...ectionId=10506 Wildimonitlikeacollectoronsupermanno1Alaska ™

February 20, 2009, 08:13 PM	#5
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	Thanks, I had already searched for it myself and filled out the recall request. One of my guns was hit (the PPK) but not my PPK/S. The PPK/S had a serial number of LTD06XX. Thank goodness I always decocked it over a bucket of sand next to my safe. It could have apparently gone off at any time while doing so.

February 20, 2009, 08:37 PM	#6
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	I would be willing to bet that it is an issue with an individual piece. They probably have had a couple of failures of a particular piece made by a particular supplier and they have to recall all of the pistols that incorporated them to be safe.

February 20, 2009, 08:53 PM	#8
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	Am I reading the report correctly as to believe the issue is that the guns were firing when using the decocker on a live round due to a faulty firing pin block?

February 21, 2009, 03:07 AM	#12
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 23,263	Let's try to reserve this thread for discussion about the recall. Divergent rants on the geopolitical theories of gun-buying decision-making and the ethics of name licensing, etc are fodder for other threads. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

February 21, 2009, 09:55 AM	#13
David the Gnome Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,092	For those of us who are sending our PPK's in, are you guys marking your guns in some way to ensure you get your actual gun and all its parts back? I was thinking of writing my initials inside the frame/slide with a sharpie just to make sure they don't accidentally send me the wrong slide, or at least if they do I'll know. I just remember reading a couple threads during the Ruger LCP recall about people getting the wrong slide back with their guns. My PPK is new and has about 100 rounds through it, I have carried it numerous times but the gun still looks brand new. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum.

February 21, 2009, 12:53 PM	#14
lel Member Join Date: February 21, 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 27	Oh great. I've got two of the little beauties.

February 21, 2009, 03:34 PM	#15
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,764	"When the manual safety is disengaged, Smith & Wesson’s Product Engineering Group has determined that the possibility exists in certain firearms that lowering the hammer may cause a chambered round to fire." That doesn't sound to me like the gun is firing by the hammer falling as in engaging the safety, it sounds like disengaging the safety after engaging the safety and dropping the hammer on the block of the safety. I can't understand that. How could you lower the hammer after disengaging the safety? But again, for the record, if you like your PPK series gun lower the hammer with your thumb as the safety drops it, as the safety takes a beating dropping the hammer on it and they have been known to break. I don't know if that pertains to modern S&W guns, but what's it hurt to baby it? The guns that had broken safety firing pin blocks were made long ago in Germany and France, so I can't believe it's related. __________________ CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P238's and P938's. Plus Colt Mustang hardened 416 guide rods, and Llama .32 and .380 recoil spring buttons, checkered nicely and blued.

February 21, 2009, 05:52 PM	#16
hhb Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2007 Location: Foothills of the Ozarks Posts: 316	Walther recall I tried to fill out the S&W on-line recall form, and it won't accept my serial #. I bought new in December,2002. My serial # is 3XXXBAB. Does the recall affect those with the suffix BAB rather than the prefix BAB? Also, mine is a PPK/s-1 model. m I finally figured out what I was doing wrong on the on-line S&W recall information form. I was putting dashes in the phone number. Tried it with a dash, and it took it with the BAB as a suffix. I got an immediate confirmation number. Last edited by hhb; February 21, 2009 at 06:34 PM. Reason: additional information

February 23, 2009, 12:17 AM	#17
bignz Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Location: North Texas Posts: 196	When you submit your serial number try the letters first: BAB3xxx. That's the way it appears on my gun and it submitted just fine.

February 23, 2009, 12:21 AM	#18
bignz Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Location: North Texas Posts: 196	should have finished reading. I don't know why they listed the letters at the end. As I understand it the letters represent a batch and the numbers further specify the gun. Pre, Suf,... they only use one set of letters. Is anyone else super excited about getting a gun back with a punch mark in it? Good grief.

February 23, 2009, 12:33 AM	#19
bignz Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Location: North Texas Posts: 196	The description of the problem is a bit mysterious. I'm not sure this is the answer but... If you use the decocker to bring down the hammer you will find that the trigger is locked back. If with your thumb you then pull the hammer back, you will find that it can be pulled all the way back and will never catch (because the decocker is engaged. If you were to let the hammer go at this point it would travel with full force and strike the block that is just barely holding it back from the pin. Could it be that this force could (1 out of 100000 times) create enough of a shock to jar the pin and discharge the weapon? If on the other hand you use the decocker to bring the hammer down, and then take it off safe to release the trigger forward, and then return it to safe...you will notice that the hammer cannot be pulled back and thus exerts much less force on the firing pin block if released from essentially a half-cock position. I am just offering a guess here...not even sure it's a good guess.

February 23, 2009, 08:43 AM	#20
hhb Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2007 Location: Foothills of the Ozarks Posts: 316	Walther recall I just got off the phone with a S&W customer service rep, and he says the 3 letters in the serial number can be either a prefix or a suffix.

February 24, 2009, 09:44 AM	#22
orchidhunter Junior member Join Date: December 1, 2008 Posts: 320	S&W has corrected its web site and revised the list of serial numbers to show the 4 numeral followed by 3 alpha designation. The affected pistols for the Walther PPK and PPK/S recall are now listed as follows: This recall applies to all Walther PPK and PPK/S pistols manufactured by Smith & Wesson from March 21, 2002, until February 3, 2009. The Serial Numbers of the pistol subject to this recall are as follows: 0010BAB - 9999BAB 0000BAC - 9999BAC 0000BAD - 9999BAD 0000LTD - 0499LTD 0001PPK - 1500PPK 0000BAE - 9999BAE 0000BAF - 9999BAF 0001WLE - 0459WLE 0000BAH - 9999BAH 0000BAJ - 9999BAJ 0000BAK - 9999BAK 0026REP - 0219REP 0000BAL - 5313BAL 0000BAM - 1320BAM orchidhunter

February 24, 2009, 03:49 PM	#24
orchidhunter Junior member Join Date: December 1, 2008 Posts: 320	PBP, "This recall applies to all Walther PPK and PPK/S pistols manufactured by Smith & Wesson from March 21, 2002, until February 3, 2009". If your pistol was manufactured in this time frame, I guess it applies to your pistol. Recall of the recall notice, it will be hard to put any faith in what S&W says or does about this big mess. orchidhunter Last edited by orchidhunter; February 24, 2009 at 04:22 PM.

February 24, 2009, 04:08 PM	#25
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	It appears serial numbers are pretty much a moot point regarding the recall. I just called and spoke to them and they said the recall effects "ALL" of the guns they have made in the past seven years...with no exceptions. When I told them my PPK/S was not covered in the range they listed on their website they said they were not aware my gun even existed and that they would do some research and update the website. It appears someone forgot that they made the "Aristocrat" as part of the limited series (LTD) from numbers 0500LTD to 0650LTD.

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