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View Poll Results: Why do you carry a gun on your person?
I am required by my location and circumstances 31 15.42%
I carry just to be on safe side, but there really isn't any immediate threat 143 71.14%
I carry for fun since I can llegally do so 9 4.48%
I dont carry on person. I leave gun at home 18 8.96%
Voters: 201. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 29, 2008, 12:09 PM   #26
Join Date: October 13, 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 71
I carry usually in the field (hunting/farming land, not combat zone) and always in my vehicle. My biggest concern is breaking down on the side of the rode. Do I wish I could carry everyday everywhere? yes... unfortunately my daily activities take me to to many locations that my state says no no to carrying.

Just last year 4 punks approached a 60 something farmer and beat him nearly to death in his field to see what he had in his house, tied up his wife and sister in law in house. I hope to never pull a weapon in defense, but also will not allow myself to be a victim......or at least a unarmed victim.
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Old November 29, 2008, 12:19 PM   #27
Join Date: November 29, 2008
Posts: 17
my .02

I have no reason to carry. But living in Canada I do find it strange
that people carry.
On saying that if we could I think I would. But I have never had a reason to in my 65 years of living. I do have the guns to carry a 45 and 44mag
and I know how to use them. But they are lock up at home.
It is getting bad up here with all the tree hugers. We got laws coming
out of our butts LOL
Save you rights and God bless
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Old November 29, 2008, 12:28 PM   #28
Join Date: November 29, 2008
Posts: 17
me again

I must say that I don't travel much in the States and when I do it is always
on my mine who might be carrying and are they trigger happy.
Ok I love to be able hunt with one. I do have 7mm tcu and a 44mag
in a contender.
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Old November 29, 2008, 01:02 PM   #29
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Lyari is quite far but thats not the only troubled spot. Recent clashes b/w Muttahida & ANP/ Pakhtoons groups are happening in quite well off localities as well e.g. Gulshan, North Nazimabad etc. I live in North Nazimabad btw.

Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said today the Indian government should provide evidence to support any claims the attacks were linked to groups in Pakistan.

Last edited by rogertc1; November 29, 2008 at 01:09 PM.
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Old November 29, 2008, 04:29 PM   #30
Join Date: November 9, 2008
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Sorry this is so long, but is worth it in my opinon

My department doen't require me to carry off duty, but this is why I do.

The following was written by LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, author of "On Killing."

Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:

"Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggrava ted assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another. Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calli ng them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy p roductive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed

Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools.

But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in hi s fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.

Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?

Understand that there is nothing morally super ior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population. There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldie rs I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church. They are well concealed in ankle holsters, sh oulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs. Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on th e boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were un prepared for that day?"

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall th ey take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.

And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes. If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...


This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is t he ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.
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Old November 29, 2008, 09:47 PM   #31
Join Date: November 29, 2008
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nice read but we try to keep our wolfs in Toronto or send them south(joke)
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Old November 29, 2008, 09:57 PM   #32
Join Date: February 27, 2005
Location: PA
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Can't answer the poll as I carry for protection but consider it immediately needed. Poll needs to clarify the immediate aspect. I looked at states like Maryland where you need a death threat or police reported assault.

Sounds like clossing the gate after the horse
"I would advise persisting in our struggle for liberty, though it were
revealed that 999 men were to perish, and only one of a thousand to
survive and retain his liberty. One such freeman must possess more
virtue, and enjoy more happiness, than a thousand slaves."

- Samuel Adams - 1774
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Old November 29, 2008, 09:58 PM   #33
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Very eloquent couldn't have said it better from 1 sheepdog to another.
Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.
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Old November 29, 2008, 10:11 PM   #34
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I must say that I don't travel much in the States and when I do it is always
on my mine who might be carrying and are they trigger happy.
I always find it interesting that some express concerns about law abiding citizens carrying a weapons, but never seem to express the same concerns re: criminals who harm people all the time. I haven't looked up the stats, but I'd have to figure your chances of being the victim of a violent criminal are infinitely more likely than being mistaken for a criminal and shot by a "trigger happy" armed citizen who has taken a course, learned about the law, and passed a federal background check. Not to mention having learned about the very narrow perameters under which deadly force would be justified.

Can't think of an incident in my community where a licensed citizen was "trigger happy" and shot the wrong person.

There are a number where they shot the right one.

Last edited by Nnobby45; November 30, 2008 at 02:36 AM.
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Old November 29, 2008, 10:31 PM   #35
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I carry everywhere that I am permitted, at all times that I am permitted.

I've already balanced out my pocket load to account for the weight of my firearm. If I leave the firearm at home, I pull to the right.

I'm no good to anyone wandering around in circles.
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Old November 29, 2008, 11:17 PM   #36
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I carry a pistol just to be on safe side, but there really isn't any immediate threat .

If there was an immediate threat, I'd carry a rifle.
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USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
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Old November 30, 2008, 12:25 AM   #37
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I must say that I don't travel much in the States and when I do it is always on my mine who might be carrying and are they trigger happy.
Then may I suggest you refrain from traveling in the USA?

If you are talking about licensed CWP holders, I (as one) take great exception to your broad assumption. We're taught in class, and train ourselves, for the limits under which we're able to pull and fire our weapon. You need to read some of the CWP restrictions in various states. We're not vigilantes, nor are we ad hoc policemen. We're private citizens who carry a gun for one reason, to protect our or a loved one's life. Period. We're NOT "trigger happy". To my knowledge, there has not been one illegal use of a firearm by a CWP holder in SC since the law was enacted. NOT ONE. Trigger happy? BS! Each one of us dreads having to pull their weapon, much less fire it. However, we ARE aready if need be.

In SC, the law reads " fear of our life or severe bodily injury..." That's the ONLY reason we can fire.
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Old November 30, 2008, 12:57 AM   #38
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I carry all day, every day. You never know what may happen, and I am prepared to defend myself if necessary. The old saying "Don't get caught with your pants down" applies pretty well.
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Old November 30, 2008, 02:59 AM   #39
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i carry as part of my zombie survival plan! lol

as close as i live to new orleans its a necessity. that doesnt even include the other stuff like the dunkin donuts shooting, or random acts of violence.
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
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Old November 30, 2008, 03:42 AM   #40
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I feel like I carry more for the people I'm with. For instance, if I'm with my mom or girlfriend, little brother or nieces, I always carry. However, as of recently if I'm wearing a belt I'm carrying.
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Old November 30, 2008, 08:44 AM   #41
Join Date: November 29, 2008
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I will go State side again because you have some nice weather
but I do have to go to Sinclare International for somethings
I have no reason to go to Jane and Finch in Toronto (the only place that
I would carry if we could) other than that I have had no reason in 65 years
You do know that I live in Canada right, we don't need to.
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Old November 30, 2008, 02:53 PM   #42
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+1 location and circumstances

I live in a populated area which has less security than the police station. There's no telling when some crazy nut will walk into the shopping mall, gas station, grocery store and start popping people left and right.

It doesn't happen that often, but it happens and I'd rather be ready for it than caught with my pants down.
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Old November 30, 2008, 03:09 PM   #43
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Always carry, add one more to the "DogPile"
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Old November 30, 2008, 03:42 PM   #44
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I chose the first category, as it is a little closer to reality for me. While I live in a relatively obscure and remote (for police protection) area, . . . when I have to go to the village, . . . the choices are not at all good ones.

Cracktown is about 6 miles away, . . . shooter's alley is 10, . . . dumber-n-a-rock is about 12, . . . and little Somalia is 20. True, . . . there are a lot of real good folks living there, . . . but there is also a much greater percentage of goblins, bg's, thugs, and thieves there than here on my 10 acres.

Being over 60, . . . minor heart problems, . . . one bum knee, . . . and not really willing to rassle some punk kid 1/3 my age so he doesn't knife me, . . . I carry my 1911.

May God bless,
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If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
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Old November 30, 2008, 05:02 PM   #45
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YYou need to read some of the CWP restrictions.) and were do I get this
Just in case I come down there and want to strap one on.
Because I don't need to carry up here.
I was just try to find out why people need to carry and you get bent out of shape.
I'm not trying to take your rights away I just ask a ??
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Old November 30, 2008, 07:46 PM   #46
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I was just try to find out why people need to carry and you get bent out of shape.
I'm not trying to take your rights away I just ask a ??
Well, the part where you just asked was well received and many answered the question.

The part about being afraid you'll be shot by a trigger happy citizen licensed to carry is what aroused some posters.

Once again, why do some (usually anti-gun) folks express little concern for repeat, violent, armed felons who are the streets of American and Canadian cities as well, but are quick to express concerned over law abiding armed citizens who have to meet requirements before they can be armed?

I don't expect you to answer the question, but perhaps you might think about it.
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Old November 30, 2008, 11:17 PM   #47
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I'm not going to vote at this moment, because I don't carry (I don't have a permit yet, and it would be hard to conceal an SKS or a shotgun very easily). But my goal for this upcoming year is to get a permit and a handgun to carry. I do live in one of the worse parts of town, but I have been lucky to no have anything too much of value to steal (besides my guns, but they are locked up next to me in the bedroom).

I did have a bicycle stolen from me once, but no big deal. But my roommate's gf's car was stolen from in front of the house. I was out of town for the week, and locks on my beater Scout don't work anyways, so I'm surprised they took hers and not my Scout. Maybe they tried, and got frustrated at trying to start the damn thing.
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Old November 30, 2008, 11:52 PM   #48
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I carry to have control over my own fate. It is a great responsibility and that makes me more aware of my surroundings and planing for "what if..." scenarios. Just lalala-ing through life dosn't make much sense when you think about it.

In reading these posts I see where there were armed robberys of Dunkin Doughnut stores in South Carolina. The same thing has happened here twice in the last few days, with the BG's downing one victim with a shotgun blast...You just never know where this stuff will go down.

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Old December 1, 2008, 12:48 AM   #49
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I carry to have control over my own fate.
There you go, Relee. Neither one of us think that having a say so in whether we live or die means on our knees in a back room begging for our lives.

Last edited by Nnobby45; December 1, 2008 at 01:16 AM.
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Old December 1, 2008, 01:18 AM   #50
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Neither one of us think that having a say so in whether we live or die means on our knees in a back room begging for our lives.
Exactly. Well put.
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