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Old November 21, 2008, 10:25 PM   #26
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I like to find some secluded place to shoot and try all sorts of real world targets to determine if they are concealment or cover. You'd be surprised. I hear that .223 rifles have a tough time penetrating windshields because of the angle and most just bounce right off.

having shot many many 5.56 at a large variety of windsheilds(bmw m3-dump truck) i can assure that this is untrue.

it also takes a suprising amount of 5.56 to stop/seize an engine.
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Old November 21, 2008, 10:54 PM   #27
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On TV the car door is cover, in real life it's concealment.
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Old November 22, 2008, 04:37 PM   #28
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Police Interceptor Kevlar Panels

The doors of police cruisers sometimes do offer cover and not merely concealment.

Beginning a few years ago Ford started offering the option of factory installed Kevlar panels in the doors of Crown Victoria Police Interceptors. I believe this was an attempt to capture some of the market discovered for such products by aftermarket installers.

They were somewhat expensive, starting out at over $1,000 per door, with the option of ordering panels in both front doors or just the driver's door.

The manufacturer brags about its products here:
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Last edited by Dizzipator; November 22, 2008 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Found manufacturer's website.
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Old November 28, 2008, 02:20 PM   #29
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On TV the car door is cover, in real life it's concealment.
That being said, most people are quite indoctrinated by TV. When I attended some training recently, one of the other students was addressing a target in a pickup truck. The bad guy lost sight of the student, who ducked and moved all the way around the back of the bed to shoot the bad guy through the open driver's window while the driver was still searching for the student on the passenger side. The instructor said good job, but why didn't you just shoot him through the cab? Two layers of sheet metal and some vinyl isn't cover and you can see where the bad guy is.

We're trained to look for that clean shot. Hunting may play a part of that also. We wait until the deer is out of the thicket to get that sure one shot kill.
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Old November 29, 2008, 12:52 AM   #30
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I read an account of a BG who had ambushed LE with a .45 ACP. BG was eventually killed, but all 8 of the .40 S&W hits he took (180 gr. hydrashocks) had passed thru the car he was hiding behind, and all penetrated only an inch. He was finally hit by 00 buck that was fired at his feet under the car, and finished with 5 shots of .223.
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Don't rely on anything to be the "end all" for any situation.
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Old November 29, 2008, 01:57 AM   #31
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Actually you fire the 00buck at the road near the car in line with the BG when his feet are swept out from under him you follow up with a couple more blasts. You can do the same thing with a handgun I used to teach it.
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Old November 29, 2008, 02:17 AM   #32
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I also believe some departments put a ballistic shield in the doors.
Any cover is better than none and concealment helps.
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Old December 6, 2008, 07:38 PM   #33
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If there is a bulletproof tree in the vicinity, then the police might take cover there. Hehehe!
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Old December 6, 2008, 07:48 PM   #34
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any object with mass is going to be "resistant"... The question is to what degree. Any cover is better than no cover. Cover is more than just a bullit deflector. It obscures the position of the body that you have behind it. Thus making the shooter estimate where your body is or just limit them to shooting at the part you have exposed(which is much smaller).
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Old December 6, 2008, 08:02 PM   #35
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For the same reason folks "hide in the dark" even though we now have night vision stuff. Instinct is to get out of the light or behind concealment of some sort.

Also, as has been covered, newer cruisers might actually have the ballistic panels installed.
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Old December 7, 2008, 12:43 AM   #36
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About 10 years ago the city of Los Angeles made all of the driver side doors and windows on patrol cars bulletproof (their words). This was on the news and the big concern was cost, something like $1500 plus per car.

I'm not sure they could stop a .50 BMG round, but I'm sure they got the handgun and most normal rifle rounds stopped. In this case, the door makes more sense as cover.
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Old December 8, 2008, 07:19 PM   #37
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We had a motor officer get in a situation where the only thing he had to hide behind was a parking meter post. He used it and survived. Either the BG was a lousy shot or someone was on his shoulder.
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Old December 8, 2008, 08:08 PM   #38
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For exactly the same reason that this guy ( ) is doing his best to hide behind a 6" tree; having SOMETHING (ANYTHING) between you and the person shooting at you is a whole lot better than having nothing at all.
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