The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 2, 2008, 08:54 AM   #1
sophijo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 28, 2004
Posts: 666
Blueing turns

Whats happening to "bluing" over the years when it turns from Blue to purple to brown? I like a well worn gun. My favorite is my Granddad's Parker SxS; well cared for and well worn.....wouldn't refinish it for anything!....curious about the bluing though.
sophijo is offline  
Old November 2, 2008, 09:28 AM   #2
wjkuleck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,220
"Bluing" is actually rust, a controlled, tinted rust, but iron oxide all the same. What you see is the transition, over time, to "bluing's" natural color: brown.

Regards,

Walt
__________________
Author, NEW! The M1911 Complete Owner's Guide
The M14
and M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guides
The M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guide
The AR-15 Complete Assembly
and (New 4th Edition) Owner's Guides
wjkuleck is offline  
Old November 2, 2008, 09:42 AM   #3
fisherman66
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2005
Location: The Woodlands TX
Posts: 4,679
I love "plum blue". Some batches of blued chrome moly steel tend to discolor over time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Ruger plum on my Ruger #1. I doubt it will happen with their newer firearms though.

To prevent it I'd imagine a good coat of oil or wax should prevent any further oxidation.
__________________
la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas!
fisherman66 is offline  
Old November 2, 2008, 11:32 AM   #4
George R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2004
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 151
Blueing Appearance

It's been my experience that this happens because there is more than 1/2 of 1% silicone in the steel. As I understand it, the silicone is added to make the steel easier to work. I've seen this on everything from Topper shotguns to Desert Eagles. When I hot blue, if I up my working temperature from 285 degrees to 305 ( I use Du-Lite Steelkote), this seems to cure the problem. Although, in reading the comments, plum is an acceptable color to a lot of gun owners. It does kind of add a nice old timey look.
George R is offline  
Old November 2, 2008, 01:12 PM   #5
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 21,063
Walt,

Your correct about bluing being iron oxide, but not about the natural color. There are actually different forms of iron oxide molecule, ferric oxide, ferrous oxide, and ferrosoferric oxide. The differences are the number of iron and oxygen atoms in the molecule, and happen because iron atoms can be ionized by losing either two (++) or three (+++) electrons. The two forms do not combine into oxide molecules with the same numbers of oxygen atoms, because oxygen always ionizes to have two extra electrons (––), or at least that is so within the common scheme of things.

Red rust is ferric oxide, or hematite: Fe2O3. It is made up from the triple charged iron atoms combining with oxygen so the net numbers of negative and positive charges balance.

Hydrated ferric oxide, ochre, is a yellowish brown, and is Fe2O3·H2O

Greenish-Black iron oxide or wüstite is ferrous oxide, FeO.

Bluish-Black iron oxide is magnetite or ferrosoferric oxide, Fe3O4. It is an equal combination of the ferric and ferrous oxide molecules. It is what is on blued guns.

In the old days, plum brown was achieved by rusting and carding guns and saturating the red rust with oil to keep it from migrating into the surface. It was discovered you could convert red rust to magnetite with boiling water. The magnetite form does not migrate even when not oiled, and so it became a favored method of prepping the gun surface.

If you use molten oxidizing salts to blue a gun (hot bluing), temperature is critical, as George said. Overheating often gives red or purple results. It affects the surface iron ionization and with that, what the oxygen is combining with and the resulting balance of ferric and ferrous oxide molecules. The color has to do with that balance; just how complete the formation of magnetite is? The addition of nickel salts and other additives can make the finish blacker. As to changing color, though, I've got my great granddad's Smith $ Wesson, still as blue as it was in the late 1800's. I can't say I've ever noticed an actual color change in anything I own, though the color and intensity of incident light and whether or not the bluing is oiled and what with, can affect that.

Iron oxides are normally quite stable. Magnetite is mined and as a mineral has been stable in the ground for billions of years. Some specific influence would be required to alter it.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.03860 seconds with 9 queries