Glued extractors

CorpseEater · September 3, 2008, 09:51 AM

Hey guys, I read a while ago about springfield glueing their extractors in. I'd just recently gotten a loaded and decided to check myself, and mine wasn't glued. It seems to be held in place by the firing pin stop along with the firing pin.

So is this just a myth? Or do certain models have theirs glued in like GI models or Mil-spec? Maybe I'm beating a dead horse with this topic, if I am I apologize in advance.

hockeysew · September 3, 2008, 09:57 AM

I have never heard of a "glued" extractor. Never seen one on any 1911.
I have seen some very difficult to remove ones due to lack of maintenance/rust though.
What you probably think is glue is more than likely factory maintenance oil that has hardened around it. It can make you think it is glue.
Soak it in some Kroil or similar and it should come free. You may have to flex the hook end to get it to slide out of the slide.

CorpseEater · September 3, 2008, 10:03 AM

Oh no I had no problems getting my extractor out, I've just seen on this forum and i think the 1911 forum when people start talking about what 1911 to get someone will chime in that springfield glues their extractors, and they had to get theirs pinned. Or something along those lines.

I do appreciate the tip though

. I'm just curious to see what everyone elses experiences have been with Springfield, and if anyone actually found an extractor to be glued/loctited in place.

45_Shooter · September 3, 2008, 10:11 AM

Wrong part: it's not the extractor, but the ejector. An ejector should pinned in place with a cross pin, however it is encapsulated by the slide and can't move unless the slide is removed. I have never seen a glued ejector, but have heard of it and specifically applied to Springfield; don't know if it's true or not but it is plausible.

CorpseEater · September 3, 2008, 11:25 AM

Woops, I guess i got my parts that start with E mixed up.

RsqVet · September 3, 2008, 12:06 PM

Take your slide off and look at the left side of the frame (side the slide stop is on). If you do not see a roll pin below the ejector --- it will be about 1/4 inch from the back of the gun and in the grove of the frame rail. If you don't see a pin, then you have a glue on. There was a thread here recently with pics if you need an even better description.

Bad news is glue can fail, good news is springer uses decent parts and it's not a huge task to get a smith to drill and pin the thing. If it's a defensive gun I'd definalty do this.

Sturmgewehre · September 3, 2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

I have never seen a glued ejector, but have heard of it and specifically applied to Springfield; don't know if it's true or not but it is plausible.

Here ya go.

Glued:

Pinned:

CorpseEater · September 3, 2008, 12:22 PM

Hrmm as far as I can tell it does indeed look glued now that I've had a good look at it (and wasnt looking at the extractor like a bonehead LOL). I'm not terribly worried about it at the moment but in the future I'd like to get it pinned. Whats a rough estimate for what a smith would charge to pin it?

Plus side is I'm getting pretty damn quick at fieldstripping my 1911.

CorpseEater · September 3, 2008, 12:23 PM

Thanks for the pics, and might I say those are some fine looking grips you have on both your guns.

rogertc1 · September 3, 2008, 02:46 PM

I'll look at mine...My Springer GI has a pin, as does the PT1911, my Kimber, Llama, Remington, and my Norinco.
Maybe something new from Brazil to save money??

HisSoldier · September 3, 2008, 02:51 PM

Oh get real people! There's nothing wrong with cheap manufacturing processes. Why, if John Browning had glue in 1911 he's have used it. He'd have used aluminum and plastic and probably recycled paper. Guns are actually better when manufacturers skimp on "Quality".

Dobe · September 3, 2008, 04:14 PM

Why not just spit on it and stick it in there? I prefer anything that makes a more solid handgun.

teeroux · September 3, 2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Why not just spit on it and stick it in there?

bubble gum

David the Gnome · September 3, 2008, 06:11 PM

I've never heard of these parts breaking so what difference does it make how it's attached?

Sturmgewehre · September 3, 2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Maybe something new from Brazil to save money??

It's an American made model.

Sturmgewehre · September 3, 2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Oh get real people! There's nothing wrong with cheap manufacturing processes. Why, if John Browning had glue in 1911 he's have used it. He'd have used aluminum and plastic and probably recycled paper. Guns are actually better when manufacturers skimp on "Quality".

Notice that hand etched serial number on the ejector? There's one on the slide and extractor too. These guns are so cheap they're hand fitted by the world renown Springfield gunsmiths.

Let me see that on your Kimber, any model.

David the Gnome · September 3, 2008, 06:34 PM

Sorry this is way off topic but this picture brought up a question I had:

That little spot on the trigger, closest to the frame, why do 1911's do that? All of my 1911's have had a spot of discoloration/wear right in that same exact spot. Is there some sort of hole above the trigger where powder gets blown down on it during firing?

Tom2 · September 3, 2008, 08:10 PM

Well if you have a gunsmith drill and pin, be sure that he uses Colt specs to do it. Not just at random. Because presumably at some point in the future you may have to replace the ejector and if the new part is holed thru at some standard spec, if your hole and pin ain't in the right place, well then things might not line up in the end. That sorta precludes Billy Bob with a drill press in the garage and a cold beer to lube the work! What is wrong with glue though? Can't you use glue to fix broken Glocks?

Sturmgewehre · September 3, 2008, 08:39 PM

No one outside of Springfield really knows what the substance is that they secure their ejectors with, but others have said it's like (or is) green loctite.

Getting the ejector out is easier with the Springer method than the roll pin method, and for the average hobbyist it can be done without damaging the pistol.

There are a few reports of the "glue" method causing problems, but then there are just as many reports of improperly drilled holes. There is a very-very small area between the back of the magazine well and the diconnector channel. I've seen far too many 1911's with the pin hole either cut into the mag well or the disconnector channel.

If your ejector becomes loose, put some loctite on it. Every time I clean my Springers I check the ejector tension and over the last 15 years or so I've never had a problem with any of them. If I did find one was loose, I would fix it quickly and cheaply.

Chui · September 3, 2008, 08:52 PM

You can use a SMALL AMOUNT or blue Loctite or, more permanently, Red Loctite. Screw up and let it drip down into the inner workings of the pistol and you could have "some issues". I've had a 'smith pin two TRPs and applied red Loctite on a Loaded Springfield. I cannot recall what the Les Baer has; I assume (emphasis on "assume") it's pinned. It's been that long...

The issue I had was once I was removing the slide on the TRP to clean it and I noticed something fall to the floor. It was the ejector. The pistol ran fine but when the slide was removed it could fall. It also wiggled a bit when installed. At first I applied blue Loctite then informed my 'smith who promptly jigged, drilled and pinned it. I have heard that it's somewhat "tricky" to perform. I wouldn't know, really, as I have virtually no actual machining background.

I'd think it would be okay with a dab of red Loctite. If it still comes loose send it to a 'smith.

Sturmgewehre · September 3, 2008, 08:59 PM

A couple of examples of ejector problems, they are common in "glued" and pinned guns all the same:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=171866

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=171687

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=175053

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=199777

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=180399

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=184968

As you can see, they occur and more often than not it's in pistols that have pinned ejectors vs. "glued". The argument that one is less troublesome than the other is not based in reality.

**44 AMP** · September 3, 2008, 09:19 PM

And the 1911A1 was still the issue pistol, we were taught that the ejectors were press fitted (never heard a word about glue or loctite), and that replacement ejectors were pinned. There was a special jig for drilling the hole, to ensure it would be in the right place. We also had special jigs and tools for the staking of the grip screw bushings, plunger tubed and the front sight.

I don't know how Springfield does it today, a tiny drop of (the correct) loctite couldn't hurt anything during assembly, so I suppose it is possible. Ejectors, like grip screw bushings and plunger tubes are never removed from the frame unless they are being replaced.

There are two "legs" on the ejector that fit into holes in the frame. The front leg has a notch in it, where the pin is to go through.

Commercial makers could glue in their ejectors, but when it comes to the GI guns, I will accept the word of my instructors at the USAOC&S Small Arms Repair training.

September 3, 2008, 09:51 AM	#1
CorpseEater Member Join Date: January 3, 2005 Location: East of the gators, west of the sharks Posts: 32	Glued extractors Hey guys, I read a while ago about springfield glueing their extractors in. I'd just recently gotten a loaded and decided to check myself, and mine wasn't glued. It seems to be held in place by the firing pin stop along with the firing pin. So is this just a myth? Or do certain models have theirs glued in like GI models or Mil-spec? Maybe I'm beating a dead horse with this topic, if I am I apologize in advance.

September 3, 2008, 02:51 PM	#11
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	Oh get real people! There's nothing wrong with cheap manufacturing processes. Why, if John Browning had glue in 1911 he's have used it. He'd have used aluminum and plastic and probably recycled paper. Guns are actually better when manufacturers skimp on "Quality". __________________ CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P238's and P938's. Plus Colt Mustang hardened 416 guide rods, and Llama .32 and .380 recoil spring buttons, checkered nicely and blued.

September 3, 2008, 04:14 PM	#12
Dobe Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2004 Posts: 1,348	Why not just spit on it and stick it in there? I prefer anything that makes a more solid handgun. __________________ What America needs is not a good 5 cent cigar. What America needs is a good source of cheap ammunition.

September 3, 2008, 06:11 PM	#14
David the Gnome Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,092	I've never heard of these parts breaking so what difference does it make how it's attached? __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum.

September 3, 2008, 06:34 PM	#17
David the Gnome Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,092	Sorry this is way off topic but this picture brought up a question I had: That little spot on the trigger, closest to the frame, why do 1911's do that? All of my 1911's have had a spot of discoloration/wear right in that same exact spot. Is there some sort of hole above the trigger where powder gets blown down on it during firing? __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum.

September 3, 2008, 09:57 AM	#2
hockeysew Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Posts: 91	I have never heard of a "glued" extractor. Never seen one on any 1911. I have seen some very difficult to remove ones due to lack of maintenance/rust though. What you probably think is glue is more than likely factory maintenance oil that has hardened around it. It can make you think it is glue. Soak it in some Kroil or similar and it should come free. You may have to flex the hook end to get it to slide out of the slide.

September 3, 2008, 10:03 AM	#3
CorpseEater Member Join Date: January 3, 2005 Location: East of the gators, west of the sharks Posts: 32	Oh no I had no problems getting my extractor out, I've just seen on this forum and i think the 1911 forum when people start talking about what 1911 to get someone will chime in that springfield glues their extractors, and they had to get theirs pinned. Or something along those lines. I do appreciate the tip though . I'm just curious to see what everyone elses experiences have been with Springfield, and if anyone actually found an extractor to be glued/loctited in place.

September 3, 2008, 10:11 AM	#4
45_Shooter Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2008 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 1,050	Wrong part: it's not the extractor, but the ejector. An ejector should pinned in place with a cross pin, however it is encapsulated by the slide and can't move unless the slide is removed. I have never seen a glued ejector, but have heard of it and specifically applied to Springfield; don't know if it's true or not but it is plausible.

September 3, 2008, 11:25 AM	#5
CorpseEater Member Join Date: January 3, 2005 Location: East of the gators, west of the sharks Posts: 32	Woops, I guess i got my parts that start with E mixed up.

September 3, 2008, 12:06 PM	#6
RsqVet Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Posts: 2,474	Take your slide off and look at the left side of the frame (side the slide stop is on). If you do not see a roll pin below the ejector --- it will be about 1/4 inch from the back of the gun and in the grove of the frame rail. If you don't see a pin, then you have a glue on. There was a thread here recently with pics if you need an even better description. Bad news is glue can fail, good news is springer uses decent parts and it's not a huge task to get a smith to drill and pin the thing. If it's a defensive gun I'd definalty do this.

September 3, 2008, 12:22 PM	#8
CorpseEater Member Join Date: January 3, 2005 Location: East of the gators, west of the sharks Posts: 32	Hrmm as far as I can tell it does indeed look glued now that I've had a good look at it (and wasnt looking at the extractor like a bonehead LOL). I'm not terribly worried about it at the moment but in the future I'd like to get it pinned. Whats a rough estimate for what a smith would charge to pin it? Plus side is I'm getting pretty damn quick at fieldstripping my 1911.

September 3, 2008, 12:23 PM	#9
CorpseEater Member Join Date: January 3, 2005 Location: East of the gators, west of the sharks Posts: 32	Thanks for the pics, and might I say those are some fine looking grips you have on both your guns.

September 3, 2008, 02:46 PM	#10
rogertc1 Junior member Join Date: December 17, 2004 Location: Maquoketa Posts: 1,335	I'll look at mine...My Springer GI has a pin, as does the PT1911, my Kimber, Llama, Remington, and my Norinco. Maybe something new from Brazil to save money??

September 3, 2008, 08:10 PM	#18
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Well if you have a gunsmith drill and pin, be sure that he uses Colt specs to do it. Not just at random. Because presumably at some point in the future you may have to replace the ejector and if the new part is holed thru at some standard spec, if your hole and pin ain't in the right place, well then things might not line up in the end. That sorta precludes Billy Bob with a drill press in the garage and a cold beer to lube the work! What is wrong with glue though? Can't you use glue to fix broken Glocks? __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

September 3, 2008, 08:39 PM	#19
Sturmgewehre Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212	No one outside of Springfield really knows what the substance is that they secure their ejectors with, but others have said it's like (or is) green loctite. Getting the ejector out is easier with the Springer method than the roll pin method, and for the average hobbyist it can be done without damaging the pistol. There are a few reports of the "glue" method causing problems, but then there are just as many reports of improperly drilled holes. There is a very-very small area between the back of the magazine well and the diconnector channel. I've seen far too many 1911's with the pin hole either cut into the mag well or the disconnector channel. If your ejector becomes loose, put some loctite on it. Every time I clean my Springers I check the ejector tension and over the last 15 years or so I've never had a problem with any of them. If I did find one was loose, I would fix it quickly and cheaply. __________________ Visit my YouTube channel for reviews, tests and more. Ex Mea Sententia

September 3, 2008, 08:52 PM	#20
Chui Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2004 Posts: 1,784	You can use a SMALL AMOUNT or blue Loctite or, more permanently, Red Loctite. Screw up and let it drip down into the inner workings of the pistol and you could have "some issues". I've had a 'smith pin two TRPs and applied red Loctite on a Loaded Springfield. I cannot recall what the Les Baer has; I assume (emphasis on "assume") it's pinned. It's been that long... The issue I had was once I was removing the slide on the TRP to clean it and I noticed something fall to the floor. It was the ejector. The pistol ran fine but when the slide was removed it could fall. It also wiggled a bit when installed. At first I applied blue Loctite then informed my 'smith who promptly jigged, drilled and pinned it. I have heard that it's somewhat "tricky" to perform. I wouldn't know, really, as I have virtually no actual machining background. I'd think it would be okay with a dab of red Loctite. If it still comes loose send it to a 'smith. __________________ "Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." ~ William Pitt, 1783

September 3, 2008, 08:59 PM	#21
Sturmgewehre Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212	A couple of examples of ejector problems, they are common in "glued" and pinned guns all the same: http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=171866 http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=171687 http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=175053 http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=199777 http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=180399 http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=184968 As you can see, they occur and more often than not it's in pistols that have pinned ejectors vs. "glued". The argument that one is less troublesome than the other is not based in reality. __________________ Visit my YouTube channel for reviews, tests and more. Ex Mea Sententia

September 3, 2008, 09:19 PM	#22
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	Waaay back when I worked for the Army And the 1911A1 was still the issue pistol, we were taught that the ejectors were press fitted (never heard a word about glue or loctite), and that replacement ejectors were pinned. There was a special jig for drilling the hole, to ensure it would be in the right place. We also had special jigs and tools for the staking of the grip screw bushings, plunger tubed and the front sight. I don't know how Springfield does it today, a tiny drop of (the correct) loctite couldn't hurt anything during assembly, so I suppose it is possible. Ejectors, like grip screw bushings and plunger tubes are never removed from the frame unless they are being replaced. There are two "legs" on the ejector that fit into holes in the frame. The front leg has a notch in it, where the pin is to go through. Commercial makers could glue in their ejectors, but when it comes to the GI guns, I will accept the word of my instructors at the USAOC&S Small Arms Repair training. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.