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November 1, 2010, 05:52 PM | #1 | |
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Legality of Mech Tech upper for Glock
I'm getting the run-around regarding a 45acp upper I'm interested in for my Glock.
Some people point out the installation of this kit will prevent you from reinstalling the Glock slide, legally per the BATFE. I emailed the BATFE, still waiting on a response...usually takes a month. Here's the response I got back from an independent entity working with Mech Tech. Quote:
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November 1, 2010, 06:57 PM | #2 |
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This thread. Post #19.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416934 The case you were directed to is specific to the Thompson Contender KITS. Per the Supreme Court ruling, the THOMPSON CONTENDER KITS, when bought in ONE KIT can be used to configure any weapon you choose. Rifle to pistol and pistol to rifle, as you choose. YOU CAN NOT do this with a your glock or your 1911. Once a Rilfe, ALWAYS a rifle. Unless you file a form 1 to make a SBR. |
January 8, 2011, 04:51 PM | #3 |
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What is an Illegal SBR?
Excuse my ignorance but "What is an Illegal SBR?"
I recently acquired a Mech Tech CCU chambered for a 1911 A1 .45acp and now looking for a .45 pistol and the OP is somewhat startling. My barrel is 16.25 inches long, which is a 1/4 inch over the minimum. Do I have a problem when converting and possibly reverting the pistol ? Any comments will be appreciated. |
January 8, 2011, 05:19 PM | #4 |
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SBR = Short Barrel Rifle
An illegal SBR is one for which there isn't a proper tax stamp.
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January 8, 2011, 10:30 PM | #5 | |
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Quote:
While the US v Thompson Center Arms case, would suggest that you can convert back and forth, the ATF has taken the position that this case applies only to the TC pistol kit (I'm sure someone with better search skills knows of a link to letters from the ATF which state this). |
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January 11, 2011, 10:55 AM | #6 |
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Mech Tech CCU legalities?
I have one of these (love it) and in looking over the Halbrook thing I see no reference to where the Supreme Court singles out the T/C Arms products as being the only ones to which their decision applies. IMHO the reasoning put forward by the court is generic in nature and must apply to everyone and serves as a general interpretation to BATF 'rules'. In any event the question is are you really 'creating' a rifle when you attach a shoulder stock to a pistol having a barrel equal to or greater than 16"? - according to the Halbrook decision you are not if you're doing this to what is indeed a pistol. There are several classic pistols which have been fitted with 16" barrels - artillery Luger - and have shoulder stocks which can be legally attached - but not legally removed? - nah! If you are really bothered by all this do as the post above suggests - 'convert in private'. Some overzealous bureaucrat in the BATF may be watching but I don't see it holding up in court. I'll be interested to see the response by the BATF to the email sent their way by 'chris in va' - maybe also email Halbrook.
Last edited by 2ndChildhood; January 11, 2011 at 11:01 AM. Reason: added text |
January 11, 2011, 11:19 AM | #7 | |
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Quote:
By my calculations, a Luger with a 16" barrel is going to be about 21 1/2" long. Put the stock on, you have created a rifle. Take the stock off and you now have an illegal SBS. |
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January 11, 2011, 11:46 AM | #8 |
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I think you mean SBR, not SBS
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January 11, 2011, 02:51 PM | #9 | ||
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You're getting your guns mixed up. ANY Luger with a 16" bbl and shoulder stock is a rifle by definition. The barrel is not removable (as in a 1911, Glock or Hi Power) so it cannot easily or readily be converted back to a pistol. A Luger with a 12" bbl, on the other hand IS a handgun. It becomes a short barrelled rifle when a shoulder stock is attached. Remove the shoulder stock and it remains a SBR under the National Firearms Act of 1934 and requires an ATF tax stamp. Unless.......it is specifically exempted as many Artillery Lugers are. Certain Lugers, Mausers and FN/Browning Hi Powers are exempt from NFA regulation due to their status as curios. Not all Lugers, Mausers or Hi Powers are exempt from the NFA....only a defined few. See the list here:http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...-p-5300-11.pdf See Section III SECTION III: "Weapons Removed From The NFA As Collector's Items And Classified As Curios Or Relics Under The GCA" (pages 34-42) Quote:
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January 11, 2011, 07:08 PM | #10 |
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January 12, 2011, 12:43 AM | #11 | |
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Quote:
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January 12, 2011, 02:25 AM | #12 |
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I have a Mech Tech in .460 Rowland ,when I take the slide off my 1911 .45 and add the Mech Tech unit is becomes a rifle...When I remove the unit and attach the slide to my 1911 .45 it becomes a pistol..Leave the house with one or the other.No problem.
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January 12, 2011, 10:48 PM | #13 | |
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Quote:
When you remove the Mechtech from your rifle and reassemble with your 1911 sllide and barrel...........you have just manufactured "a firearm made from a rifle". That requires a SBR tax stamp. No tax stamp? BIG problem.
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January 13, 2011, 02:18 AM | #14 | |
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Quote:
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January 13, 2011, 04:08 AM | #15 |
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Thanks for the warnings I have not removed the 1911 from the Mech Tech unit as it is a great little rifle compact fun to shoot, I intend to keep it that way.
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January 13, 2011, 04:19 AM | #16 |
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And, to the best of my knowledge, it still isn't a problem.
The Mech-Tech upper conversion is available for purchase via website. It has been for years. In all this time, they have sold numerous units. I have seen these units. I have fired these units. I have been on live ranges, and seen these units fired IN THE DIRECT PRESENCE of DEA and ATF enforcement agents, as well as other law enforcement personnel. This is from the Mech-Tech website... "The CCU is not a firearm and will not fire without a pistol lower in place. The CCU is simply an accessory such as a scope or grips. For State and local laws you are advised to become aware of them relative to where you live. As far as Mech-Tech is aware, the CCU in and of itself is legal in all States. We do know that in the case of California the combination of the CCU and a pistol lower becomes illegal under current law. If and when Mech-Tech becomes aware of any other special circumstances such as California, we will publish this information. Again, the customer has the responsibility to determine the legality of the combination in their circumstance. " Perhaps this is what some of you are referring to. Source: http://www.mechtechsys.com/faqs.php#a0
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January 13, 2011, 02:32 PM | #17 | |||
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Quote:
Converting a pistol to a rifle...no problem. Converting that rifle back to a pistol.......BIG problem unless you hold a tax stamp. Quote:
No one is disputing that the MechTec upper is legal.....we all know it is. This is from the Mech-Tech website... Quote:
MechTec doesn't want you to know this because it would cause many buyers to reconsider the purchase of a conversion kit.
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January 13, 2011, 05:33 PM | #18 |
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I am aware of a couple of guys who wanted to SBR their Glocks and carry the gun CCW, with the Israeli/FAB stock in a Maxpedition-type bag to have available just in case.
After contacting ATF, their ruling was once the pistol is SBR'd it must be stored and transported in SBR configuration. You can remove the stock and fire the gun in non-NFA (pistol) configuration for short periods of time at the range for fun, but before you leave the gun must be put back into SBR configuration (stock on). You also must store the gun in your safe in SBR configuration. So, by the other ATF letter, once you 'legally' convert the Mechtech back to being a pistol (by SBRing it), then the pistol/SBR has to be carried in the SBR config (in the case of one letter, as a pistol). But according to the letter the guys I know have, you can't carry an SBR as a pistol, it has to be in SBR configuration. Unless in SBR config it is a pistol? Now I fully understand.... (I won't even get into the fact that a semi pistol with a stock is considered an SBR (constructive possession) without NFA paperwork, but with paperwork it can't be carried that way because it isn't in SBR configuration - our tax dollars hard at work) Last edited by smince; January 13, 2011 at 07:59 PM. |
January 13, 2011, 07:49 PM | #19 |
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So, a question...
How can this be an SBR with a barrel length of over 16"? But, that's OK. I put a shout out to one of my old buddies in the Seattle ATF office. He should be getting back to me with the definitive answer, and I'll post it here.
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January 13, 2011, 07:55 PM | #20 | |
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And, by the way...this is directly (again) from the Mech-Tech website...
Quote:
Make of it what you will. I'll still post the info from ATF when I get it.
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January 13, 2011, 07:55 PM | #21 | |
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January 13, 2011, 07:58 PM | #22 |
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Let me know if they tell you anything different than they told me in July.
LINK HERE. For the record, it's not a "SBR" when you take the Mech Tech upper off the frame, it's a "pistol made from a rifle." That's a no no. |
January 13, 2011, 08:17 PM | #23 | ||
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Quote:
I did find Quote:
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January 14, 2011, 08:31 AM | #24 |
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smince,
My previous post should read "weapon made from a rifle" instead of "pistol made from a rifle." My error. It is indeed from the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. ยง 5845(a), |
January 14, 2011, 02:03 PM | #25 |
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Well, I just got off the phone with the ATF Office in Seattle. Here is the official word:
There is NO--I repeat, NO--Federal restriction to using the Mech-Tech CCU Unit with a handgun lower (1911, Glock), then removing the carbine upper and reinstalling the pistol slide assembly. The one caution that I got was to "check your State's laws as well". So, check your State's laws. And, when cleared, use with confidence and much fun.
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