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Old July 16, 2008, 09:03 AM   #1
xrocket
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BHO Terrorist Apology Eight Days After 9/11

Michelle Malkin, writing for the Family Securities Network, brought to light today a little reported passage from the New Yorker's satirical cartoon of the Obama's and the accompanying feature article. The BHO quote in the NY magazine was previously published eight days after 9/11 in a Chicago newspaper.

This man, with these liberal left wing beliefs of the cause and effect of 9/11 should not be President of the United States of America. That is this poster's opinion. He simple does not have a clue ...


BHO ...
"We must also engage, however, in the more difficult task of understanding the sources of such madness. The essence of this tragedy, it seems to me, derives from a fundamental absence of empathy on the part of the attackers: an inability to imagine, or connect with, the humanity and suffering of others. Such a failure of empathy, such numbness to the pain of a child or the desperation of a parent, is not innate; nor, history tells us, is it unique to a particular culture, religion, or ethnicity. It may find expression in a particular brand of violence, and may be channeled by particular demagogues or fanatics. Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair."


Oh, the poor poor Islamic terrorist, if only they could have more empathy they would not be so mad at us. Perhaps, we should give them all our treasure (we are, oil & dollars), educate them (we are, free education) and give them all jobs (we are, overseas migration of manufacturing) so they would not think about hurting us. For, according to BHO, their actions stem from poverty and ignorance.


Can you believe this man? With these intrinsic beliefs should BHO lead America and for that matter Western civilization as we know it?



.
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Old July 16, 2008, 09:13 AM   #2
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Let me just get this straight or if not please correct me and lay this out with plenty of refrences.

Barak Obama stated this 8 days after 9/11.

Barak Obama stated this in a Chicago newspaper.

This same statement was re-stated or re-published in the current New Yorker magazine, in which Barak and wife are satirzed on the cover.

Just want to get this all straight. Please put Baraks statement in a Quote box so it stands out.

I will now most likely have to go look at the article in the New Yorker.
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Old July 16, 2008, 09:20 AM   #3
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The Obamapologists will be here shortly to explain it away.
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Old July 16, 2008, 09:25 AM   #4
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The answer to your questions are yes.

References are cited in the first paragraph.

Please continue to do your own research ... it's much more fulfilling and convincing for one's self.


Have a great day.
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Old July 16, 2008, 09:26 AM   #5
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I think this is the long article that has his quotes.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

Quote:
We must also engage, however, in the more difficult task of understanding the sources of such madness. The essence of this tragedy, it seems to me, derives from a fundamental absence of empathy on the part of the attackers: an inability to imagine, or connect with, the humanity and suffering of others. Such a failure of empathy, such numbness to the pain of a child or the desperation of a parent, is not innate; nor, history tells us, is it unique to a particular culture, religion, or ethnicity. It may find expression in a particular brand of violence, and may be channeled by particular demagogues or fanatics. Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair.
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Old July 16, 2008, 09:58 AM   #6
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Sorry XRocket, just on first read:

I

a) could not believe it.

then

b) wanted to check the facts and lay it out for those who might come along later.
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Old July 16, 2008, 10:07 AM   #7
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No problem ...

As I too found it to be almost unbelievable until I researched it further.

Unfortunately, it's true. In my opinion, the only hope for our country is BHO, if elected, will use his education and intelligence to quickly evolve and morph into a realist with true centrist responses to the world's insane challenges which face these United States. Unfortunately, evidence is mounting to the contrary. BHO, for all practical purposes is a Leftist, left of most Leftist. His voting records, writings and words seem to indicate a propensity for covert radical socialism, which I find reprehensible.
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Old July 16, 2008, 10:15 AM   #8
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While the Obama comments are indeed super lame, you are much, much more lame for pulling stuff out of context. I'm no fan of Obama, but come on.

From the link - Obama's paragraph before the OP:

Quote:
Even as I hope for some measure of peace and comfort to the bereaved families, I must also hope that we as a nation draw some measure of wisdom from this tragedy. Certain immediate lessons are clear, and we must act upon those lessons decisively. We need to step up security at our airports. We must reexamine the effectiveness of our intelligence networks. And we must be resolute in identifying the perpetrators of these heinous acts and dismantling their organizations of destruction.
Then comes that paragraph in the OP. Then the next paragraph is...

Quote:
We will have to make sure, despite our rage, that any U.S. military action takes into account the lives of innocent civilians abroad. We will have to be unwavering in opposing bigotry or discrimination directed against neighbors and friends of Middle Eastern descent. Finally, we will have to devote far more attention to the monumental task of raising the hopes and prospects of embittered children across the globe—children not just in the Middle East, but also in Africa, Asia, Latin America, Eastern Europe and within our own shores.
Then, in context, you see that over all the political fluff and pandering and pretty talk, is this: [I]We have to learn from this tragedy. We gotta find them terrorists. We gotta stop them. More importantly, we should to try understand why they are so messed up so we can stop this culture of hatred. Lastly we gotta be rational in approach to these solutions because we're all full of rage right now.

The real problem with Obama's comments is because it would be normal and human and downright American to be supremely emotional after 9/11. Think: George Bush's speech after 9/11 - you know the one with tears in his eyes. Where's Obama's passion? Where's Obama's thirst for vengeance? Where's Obama's soul? Obama's problem is the same problem that happened to another democratic presidental candidate:

"Governor, if Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?"

"No, I don't, and I think you know that I've opposed the death penalty during all of my life,"
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Old July 16, 2008, 10:16 AM   #9
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Have started to read the article but it is very long, so I will have to finish it later.

One thing I have already picked up from the article and the one thing he will try to accomplish in his first term, in fact the only thing he will truely be concerned about is

A second Term
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Old July 16, 2008, 10:43 AM   #10
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Applesanity

Thank you for citing the previous and following paragraphs as they support the the original premise reflected in the BHO quote. Yes, any sane man would want our security stepped up and our military to do their job and protect American citizens abroad, but that does not deflect from BHO apologetic reference to the cause and effect of foreign terrorist and terrorism on American soil as exemplified by 9/11.

Also Applesanity, I knew it would not take very long before someone would resort to personal derogatory remarks and layoff the blame for my post shedding light on BHO's opinion on terrorism. In that, you did not disappoint.
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Old July 16, 2008, 11:57 AM   #11
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Obama said:
Quote:
"We must also engage, however, in the more difficult task of understanding the sources of such madness. The essence of this tragedy, it seems to me, derives from a fundamental absence of empathy on the part of the attackers: an inability to imagine, or connect with, the humanity and suffering of others. Such a failure of empathy, such numbness to the pain of a child or the desperation of a parent, is not innate; nor, history tells us, is it unique to a particular culture, religion, or ethnicity. It may find expression in a particular brand of violence, and may be channeled by particular demagogues or fanatics. Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair."
Sorry, while I generally disapprove of Obama and absolutely do not support him for President I see nothing wrong with his analysis in the above quote.

Understanding the factors that lead to such acts of violence is certainly important. Standing around and shouting "they hate our freedom" if feeble pandering to the animal which demands retribution and demonization of the enemy in all of us. I have no problem with hunting down and killing the perpetrators of those attacks along with those who gave them aid and shelter. Understanding the real motivations of such people and what factors lead to such acts though is critical in planning out future US policy.

The gist of the New Yorker article and cover was making fun of the knee jerk right for their painting of Obama as a anti-American Muslim extremist. The rage against his perfectly acceptable statement quoted above in this post is evidence that such a Pavlovian response exists. Dislike Obama for the very real reasons which exist. Hammering him for non-issues only belittles any valid criticism you may make.
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Old July 16, 2008, 12:04 PM   #12
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On the subject of understanding your enemy and not giving into emotions in such important decisions I think quoting R.A. Heinlein is appropriate:

Quote:
Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes. Keep this in mind; it may offer a way to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate — and quickly.
...
A brute kills for pleasure. A fool kills from hate.
There is nothing wrong with understanding the motivations of your enemy. It does not mean accepting his actions to study what drives him.
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Old July 16, 2008, 12:23 PM   #13
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I have no problem with studying and understanding the facts which lead to the terrorist violence of 9/11. That is part and parcel of good governance. BHO's assessment of the cause and reasons for as cited in the New Yorker's article in my opinion, demonstrates a simplistic nativity toward Islamic terrorism and at it's base reflects a socialistic thought process. I fail to see the rage in these post on this thread which you allude to. As far as Pavlovian responses to BHO writings, not every response is Pavlovian in nature. What is one man's non-issue can be a very real issue to another.
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Old July 16, 2008, 12:31 PM   #14
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I think Obama's statement can stand alone. What comes after or before does not mean he is being taken out of context.

Quote:
It may find expression in a particular brand of violence, and may be channeled by particular demagogues or fanatics. Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair."
This is a typical elitist comment and gives more insight to the real Obama. Not a lot different than his cling to guns & religion statement. Never mind that Bin-Laden came from money, or that that 9/11 terrorist had fairly good educations and were not living in poverty. In other words, if we could just lift up all you poor impoverished un-educated people of the world, then terrorism would be a thing of the past......bull!
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Old July 16, 2008, 05:52 PM   #15
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It isn't NEWS. His ties to terrorists (Aires, Hezbollah) and his sympathetic attitude toward the State sponsors of terrorism in being willing meet with them unconditionally (ala Carter) is well known.

I do see a telling absence of the usual left leaning members in this thread. No SecDef, PBP, or FwdAss explaining the misrepresentation here.

Probably working on a new McBush type McCain = Bush bloodthirsty neocon thread instead of addressing this.....can't wait to see what they come up with
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Old July 17, 2008, 03:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
I do see a telling absence of the usual left leaning members in this thread. No SecDef, PBP, or FwdAss explaining the misrepresentation here.
Do you really think that every time I don't post in a thread there is tacit acceptance? You really don't understand that I am a centrist? Go figure. But I guess you care about what I think so I will make a statement for you.

I see nothing wrong with the statements made by Obama. I find them in no way apologetic for terrorists. At no time was there an indication that they should be forgiven their deeds. There was a thought that we should probably try and determine why they sprouted up; as it is not human nature to have such lack of empathy towards human beings.

There is no indication that the blame rests in the hands of the US. It is squarely on the shoulders of those that committed the acts.

Quote:
Oh, the poor poor Islamic terrorist, if only they could have more empathy they would not be so mad at us. Perhaps, we should give them all our treasure (we are, oil & dollars), educate them (we are, free education) and give them all jobs (we are, overseas migration of manufacturing) so they would not think about hurting us. For, according to BHO, their actions stem from poverty and ignorance.


Can you believe this man? With these intrinsic beliefs should BHO lead America and for that matter Western civilization as we know it?
No, I can't believe this man that you misrepresented. When I read his actual wording and not your false paraphrasing, it's fine.

Why would you condemn a man for trying to determine the cause and motivations of an enemy? Not doing so is supremely stupid.
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Old July 17, 2008, 03:18 PM   #17
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xrocket said:
Quote:
BHO's assessment of the cause and reasons for as cited in the New Yorker's article in my opinion, demonstrates a simplistic nativity toward Islamic terrorism and at it's base reflects a socialistic thought process.
I don't think we are too far apart here. I believe that the prevalence of poverty and lack of education together greatly facilitate the ability of leaders to develop fanatics. Radical Islam is simply the latest great marketing tool in uniting masses in hate.

Increase the standard of living across the Muslim world along with the level of education and you greatly reduce the amount of those future individuals eager to "fly the magic carpet."
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Old July 17, 2008, 03:49 PM   #18
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SecDef

Thank you for your views on BHO response to the cause and effect of the Islamic terrorist attacks of 9/11. If you had taken the time to read the New Yorker article you would know these are his cited written words and were not paraphrased by myself or anyone else.

Nowhere have I condemned BHO in my post or used the word condemned as you state. Condemned is your word SecDef, which must be Freudian on your part. I stated my opinion and it stands; BHO should not be President of the United States of America. Obviously, we disagree, which is completely normal and to be expected. I did ask two questions which you cite: "Can you believe this man?" Which was rhetorical, and the second question, "With these intrinsic beliefs should BHO lead America and for that matter Western Civilization as we know it?"

I really expected someone to step forward and provide insight into why he should be elected President given his propensity for socialist apologies as regards Islamic terrorist attacking America and killing and wounding more than three thousand Innocent souls and I'm still waiting.

Using derogatory remarks directed toward me only confirms what I thought.
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Old July 17, 2008, 04:23 PM   #19
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Musketeer

You are right, we are not far apart.

I have waited to make a point thinking a BHO proponent would step forward and engage in a debate which is underlining the New Yorker quote that was published in a Chicago newspaper eight days after 9/11.

The fact that BHO birth father was a Muslim, he was born a Muslim, and educated in a Islamic Madrassa until age eleven play an underlining role in his apologetic reaction to the 9/11 Islamic terrorist attacks on America?

Before anyone jumps on me; I fully acknowledge and accept BHO is now and has been a devout Christian more than twenty years, as is his wife and daughters. I also fully acknowledge that for his teenage years and college years he did not practice any religion as he has stated. That said, the question is;

Will BHO, if elected President of the United States, restrict his responses to Islamic terrorism and in effect soft pedal the War On Terrorism leaving America more venerable than she is today? I believe he will and I think that within a very few short years if not months the President of the United States will face the greatest threat any nation has ever faced in the known history of mankind and it will be Islamic in nature.

What say you?
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Old July 17, 2008, 04:45 PM   #20
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Wait, I thought he went to Catholic school...

After the Muslim turn around at age 11, I thought his mother put him in Catholic school, even though she was an Atheist. You see, that's the problem with this man, he will not give a true real answer to his back ground. I can't stand it. Is he muslim? Is he catholic? And I don't call that racist, "Whitie" Hating Church he was a member of, but now denounces, a Christian church.

This man stands in the middle Nowhere and over yonder. He has no real past, I think it's made up as he goes along. There is no real stance on issues either.

I got severly raised for my opinions in another similar thread. I think he is Islamic. I think he is a terrorist sympathiser. I think he will severly damage this country. I also do not think he has near enough experiance to be the President. He's been a Senator for like what, less than 10 years? How exactly does being a senator make you qualified to run a country? At least McCain was commander in the Military. BHO has nothing, accept a silver tongue and sheeps clothing.

He will run this country into the ground.
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Old July 19, 2008, 02:50 AM   #21
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Here's my analysis of that drivel:

Quote:
"We must also engage, however, in the more difficult task of understanding the sources of such madness."
We don't need to understand it; we merely need to destroy such sources of madness.

Quote:
"The essence of this tragedy, it seems to me, derives from a fundamental absence of empathy on the part of the attackers: an inability to imagine, or connect with, the humanity and suffering of others."
He's dead wrong. The essence of this tragedy is taking pleasure in others' suffering, a PERVERSE and EVIL ability to imagine and connect with the humanity and suffering of others.

Quote:
Such a failure of empathy, such numbness to the pain of a child or the desperation of a parent, is not innate; nor, history tells us, is it unique to a particular culture, religion, or ethnicity. It may find expression in a particular brand of violence, and may be channeled by particular demagogues or fanatics."
He's right that no group of people is above using violence that is essentially nihilist to achieve something. He has failed to consider that many of these terrorists simply wanted to be violent for the sake of violence and clothed this naked desire for destruction in radical Islamic garb.


Quote:
"Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair."
All of the 9-11 hijackers came from middle class, comfortable families. They did not grow up poor and they were NOT ignorant. They were well-educated people who took definitive action to launch an air strike on the OTHER side of the world. They were hardly helpless and they fully believed that their actions would bring God's wrath upon the US.
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Old July 19, 2008, 11:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
We don't need to understand it; we merely need to destroy such sources of madness.
An utterly pitiful approach to national policy. Using such an approach you will be playing whack a mole for decades and gaining zero ground.

I fully support going after those who conduct terrorist attacks and the nations which harbor them. The LONG TERM solution though must be understanding the driving factors, of which poverty and ignorance are certainly two, and properly countering them.

Killing every extremist will do nothing in the long run unless the systems that generated them are changed with the will of the people. All that will happen is new extremists will take their place. Education and Prosperity are the key to long term change.

Sadly there are many knee jerk reactionaries who think it is impossible to effectively prosecute such terrorists with lethal force while also working to understand their motivation and change the system.
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Old July 19, 2008, 02:09 PM   #23
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Musketeer makes a very good point. The very heart of why success in Iraq is so important.

You don't have to be idealistic to understand that people want ownership of their own lives. Arabs and Persians, whether Islamic Muslims or not, are as human as you and I. The Islamic fascists don't define the culture. The work of General Petraeus over the last year has succeeded BECAUSE they want liberty and the Petraeus approach has been a bottom up, or local to central, assurance that they CAN live how THEY want as long as they DON'T kill their neighbor for living how THEY want. Then keeping that promise. Soon the people themselves saw AlQ as the one telling them under threat how to live not the Americans. And as the promise was kept the Iraqis chased AlQ off with the Americans.

Take hold of the concept of liberty as ownership of ones own life and that Persians and Arabs are human and also desire that. As Americans we take for granted our liberty. We have enjoyed it for so long that we have developed an expectation of justice. We actually EXPECT justice. This is counter the the culture in the middle east where people expect injustice. The desire for liberty is usurped by the desire to survive. The assertion of their desire for liberty has been met with death until now as they didn't have the strong ally we did in France to overcome the overwhelming power that kept that desire down.

The dramatic progress in Iraq wasn't from bombing Iraqis into submission, playing whack-a-mole, it has been by a bottom up or local to central change in the expectations of Iraqis. They are seeing a possibility that they may be able to expect justice.

Long term, bombs and bullets are of less force then the force of liberty and the change of expectation from expecting injustice to expecting justice in the culture of the middle east. The spread of that will do more damage to the threat of terrorism then bombs. That is the WHOLE Operation Iraqi Freedom premise. To spread this in the middle east.


Now, with that said, once you become a mass murderer you've lost all credibility and righteous indignation. I tell my kids that it's not what happens to you that determines if you will get justice or not, it's what you do about it.

If your pissed at the US, with cause or not, you have absolutely no justification to commit acts of terrorism. NONE. Being pissed at your city council does not justify blowing up the city bus depot.

The comments by Obama in the days after 9/11 reveal that he buys into the 'we deserved it' mentality that is taught in Madrases across the middle east. His comments are not as much apologist as that would show a a recognition that it was wrong as they are justifying what happened. "Yeah it was tragic but justified" sums up his comments.
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Old July 20, 2008, 04:48 AM   #24
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
We don't need to understand it; we merely need to destroy such sources of madness.
An utterly pitiful approach to national policy. Using such an approach you will be playing whack a mole for decades and gaining zero ground.

I fully support going after those who conduct terrorist attacks and the nations which harbor them. The LONG TERM solution though must be understanding the driving factors, of which poverty and ignorance are certainly two, and properly countering them.
I believe my point still stands: Pull out the root and the weed will die. Pull out the roots of the weeds before they flower and go to seed and the infestation will stop. We only need to know what the driving factors are (and not necessarily understand them thoroughly either) and then act to remove the worst of them (which will effectively destroy such sources of madness). Spending the time to reach a definitive and thorough understanding of the situation also means that time wasn't used to change the situation either.

There is also the possibility that gaining a significant understanding isn't really possible. Such is the case in US dealings with North Korea: Their society is completely closed and we know very little about North Korea because the government is so hostile and paranoid. The North Koreans probably don't understand us at all, but they do know what we aren't willing to do and using that knowledge they've consistently manipulated the US like a chess piece for many years.
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Old July 20, 2008, 10:56 AM   #25
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After looking into BO's support of his Marxist, Murderous cousin Odinga in the Kenya presidential elections nothing surprises me. Here is a link to an article on the subject:

http://www.nysun.com/opinion/kenya-connection/69273/


Quote:
As he reminded us again after losing narrowly to Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire, Barack Obama likes to evoke Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech.

We must all hope that, like King's, Mr. Obama's dream is "deeply rooted in the American dream." But before giving him the keys to the White House, Americans might like to know a little more about the content of Mr. Obama's dream.

Let me propose an unlikely place to start looking: Kenya. Even in the midst of the primaries, the horrific scenes from that country since the disputed election on December 27 will not have escaped most people. In particular, the burning of a church with up to 50 men, women, and children inside, while machete-armed mobs slaughter up to 600 more people, have evoked memories of the Rwandan genocide of 1994.

Who is behind these massacres? The opposition leader, Raila Odinga, has had a good press in the West, after he accused the president, Mwai Kibaki, of rigging the election. But the victims of the recent violence have mostly been members of Mr. Kibaki's tribe, the Kikuyu, while those who have gone berserk are supporters of Mr. Odinga's Orange Democratic Movement, which is dominated by the rival Luo tribe.

Whether Mr. Odinga has ordered his men to commit murder and arson is unclear. But his own background does not exactly suggest enthusiasm for democracy and the rule of law. Mr. Odinga's father, Oginga Odinga, led the Communist opposition during the Cold War and Raila Odinga was educated in Communist East Germany.

In 1982 he was implicated in a failed coup against the then president Daniel Arap Moi. His eldest son is named after Fidel Castro and his daughter after Winnie Mandela................................




In August 2006, Mr. Obama visited Kenya and spoke in support of Mr. Odinga's candidacy at rallies in Nairobi. The Web site Atlas Shrugs has even posted a photograph of the two men side by side. More recently, Mr. Odinga says that Mr. Obama interrupted his campaigning in New Hampshire to have a telephone conversation with his African cousin about the constitutional crisis in Kenya.

What should Americans make of Mr. Obama's Kenyan connection? If he has been putting tribal or family considerations above America's national interest by supporting Mr. Odinga's anti-Western candidacy, it raises serious questions about his judgement.

At the time of his visit in 2006, President Kibaki's spokesman complained that Mr. Obama was behaving like a "stooge" of Mr. Odinga — which was at best undignified for a visiting American senator, and at worst unwarranted interference in the internal politics of another country.
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Last edited by mountainclmbr; July 20, 2008 at 01:21 PM. Reason: edit to add link and excerpt story
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