The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > NFA Guns and Gear

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 10, 2008, 03:07 AM   #1
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
M4A1 Questions

First Question:
How do I zero invisible laser with night vision on my M4A1?

Second Question:
I use HK 30 round mags. Are there better ones out there which out perform Hk mags?

Third Question:
The suppressor doesnt kill the noise. It just reduces it. Whats that suppose be? Is it how it works, or have I been sold a bad one?

Fourth Question:
Whats the best visible laser for it that holds up it its zero after firing rounds after rounds?

There two more questions pertaining to M203 attachment which I will ask later on.

Thank you
Firepower! is offline  
Old July 10, 2008, 11:05 AM   #2
Ridge_Runner_5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 8, 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,925
For zeroeing your sight...maybe use a boresight and then line up your IR laser with that one?

HK mags are the best out there, but extremely expensive...a good compromise between cost and benefits is the Magpul PMAG.

Supressors do not kill noise. They only lessen it. About 30 decibels on average, I believe...

I cant really say for a laser...probably any decent laser over $50 mounted on a LaRue mount would hold indefinately...

Go ahead and let fly with your 203 questions!
Ridge_Runner_5 is offline  
Old July 10, 2008, 12:25 PM   #3
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
Thats what I have been hearing about HK mags. So I ordered 20 of them today.

For zeroing IR through bore sight is not possiblr since I cant see thru bore sight in dark and thats only when IR will show up in night vision mounted on M4A1.
Firepower! is offline  
Old July 10, 2008, 04:51 PM   #4
Storage_man
Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20
If you run sub-sonic ammunition, the can will be really quiet.
__________________
Storage_man
BeltFeds and F/A Weapons
Storage_man is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 06:02 PM   #5
MisterPX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2006
Location: Amerika's Doyleland
Posts: 809
Take nods off the rifle, go to supply, get a zeroing target for the add ons like PEQ's etc. Zero rifle.
MisterPX is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 06:04 PM   #6
AMX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 22, 2005
Posts: 129
Do you have a NV compatible optic on your weapon? The way I did it was to look through my Aimpoint with my NV and adjusted the laser to the dot on the Aimpoint.

I set mine so that they came together about 45 or 50 yards out.

As for what lazer will hold it's zero I can tell you my Surefire L75 has held it's original zero. I wouldn't know if it's the best but it's damn good. I think the visible Surefire is the L72 if I'm not mistaken.
AMX is offline  
Old August 20, 2008, 04:08 AM   #7
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
Thanks.

Whats the point of having a suppressor if its not eliminating the noise?

I dont have access to subsonic bullets. I am thinking may be I should sell the suppressor??? Or keep it as part of the kit?
Firepower! is offline  
Old August 20, 2008, 09:28 AM   #8
USMC88-93
Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2008
Posts: 26
The suppressor is designed to reduce the noise from the weapon it will not eliminate it. They are very useful on a two way range where others are trying to shoot you. A reduced signature from a weapon can disguise your location and make it harder for others to return fire.

It is not completely intended to make it quiet for you at the weapon itself though that is a great benifit. If you have someone else fire the weapon and you are a considerable distance away you will notice a dramatic difference.
USMC88-93 is offline  
Old August 20, 2008, 09:38 AM   #9
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
thanks.
So it means it will also hide the flash.

Does it effect the velocity or energy of the bullet?

Are there sub sonic bullets for M4A1? Do they eliminate the noise?

For those marines who have used m4a1, how do you rate this weapon in combat?
Firepower! is offline  
Old August 20, 2008, 10:06 AM   #10
ISC
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,982
I teach the class on how to zero the PEQ 2 and PAQ 4 several times a year, so trust me that I'm giving you good info here.

1) In order to zero an IR laser correctly you must have some sort of night vision and a bore light. After zeroing the bore light you find the correct offset target for the correct weapon, mount, and accessory then line up the laser, sighting system, and bore light to the correct point on the offset target. Since the laser, bore, and sights are all on different planes, failing to use the correct offset will mean that, depending on the range, the laser will hit on one side of the bore lineor the other. If done correctly the laser, bore light, sights, and flood light will hit at points equidistant to each other throughout their range, except as the trajectory changes due to the ballistics of the bullet.

2) HK mags have a good reputation as do magpull mags. I like USGI mags because I think the biggest problem people experience with them is that they are often just very old and have been dropped and stepped on so many times they become out of spec Even these problems are rare. I'd rather have new GI mags than used HK mags and I can getnew GI mags whenever I want.

3) A suppressor only hides the noise of the bullet when it leaves the muzzle. a supersonic bullet in flight makes a noise as it passes by you (when you've heard it you don't forget it) By hiding the noise at the muzzle, it is harder to determine the directioin that a shot came from. Using cartridges loaded to subsonic velocities makes the bullet less audible over it's path, but reduces it's effectiveness to about the same as a .22lr. Even a suppressed M16 with subsonic ammo is going to make noise from the bolt cycling, and the redused power may make semi auto functioning problematic.

4) If a laser isn't holding it's zero it's more likely to be a problem with the mount than the laser. There is no way to hold zero with a loose mount. We always have students retighten everything after firing the first 2 shots.

IR will show up fine in a darkened room with enbough ambient light to read a newspaper. leave the lens cap on the NVD and turn the laser to the bright setting.

There is no such thing as subsonic bullets, only subsonic loadings for cartridges that result in the bullet travelling at subsonic velocities. A bullet is just the projectile that leaves the barrel; not the case, powder, or primer.
ISC is offline  
Old August 20, 2008, 08:18 PM   #11
guntotin_fool
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2004
Posts: 1,446
What brand of suppressor do you have, is it a wet or dry version, are you using it correctly?

I have used a surefire detachable on a M4orgery and it made shooting without ear protection very comfortable. it also distorts the report as you hear it away from the weapon, so that gunshot is very hard to detect from a distance away. Your mind does not say" aha, gunshot" it goes " what was that" and you think, air hose, tire leak, popped beer can etc, not "gun shots, get down."
guntotin_fool is offline  
Old August 22, 2008, 03:40 PM   #12
Rant Casey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 7, 2008
Location: AZ
Posts: 441
I have buddies who detested it, I for one think it is a fine weapon. I've heard "stories" of insurgents taking 5 or 6 hits from an m4 and continuing the fight, I've personally never seen it. In fact, one or two shots COM is enough to do the trick, i've seen people take more and continue to breath, but they were out of the fight for sure. The same people who complain that the 5.56 is weak are the very same people who would be complaining about having to clear a room with a longer rifle or having to hump an m14 all day long in 120 degree heat. Relability? I've never had my rifle die out in a fight, but I also maintained it as well as possible. In a situation where propper lubrication isn't always availible to the point where my CLP was from my family, it can get nerve racking but as long as you have the means to take care of the weapon, it runs perfectly. I'm attesting to it's function 100%, and this was with a carbine that had seen much better days. There was enough play between the upper and lower to watch a movie through, but it never affected function.

The only improvement I could see on the rifle as of right now would be to chamber it in something a little more potent, like the 6.8 spc but like I said, the 5.56 is suitable for the purpose at hand and I know many other men who can attest to that.


Quote:
For those marines who have used m4a1, how do you rate this weapon in combat?
Rant Casey is offline  
Old September 9, 2008, 06:17 PM   #13
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
I also beleive that 5.56 is an adequate round. If anything more I rather go 7.62x51 than experimenting.

Last weekend I shot 30 mags without a single hickup. Pretty good.
Has anyone used Beamshot 1000S with M4 with barrel mount? If so, how well does it hold its zero when mounted on the barrel?
Firepower! is offline  
Old November 16, 2008, 12:59 AM   #14
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
first jam

After about 1200 runds from my M4A1 (not all at the same time) I had my first jam on firing second mag in full auto. It FTE while trying to push a fresh round in chamber, thus jamming both.

Took off mag, pulled bolt back, cleared the malfnc, reinserted mag, bolted, and it good to go for the next 40 or so rounds.

However, I confidence in the reliability of the weapon has taken a dive.

How come I never had a jam in firing AK over past 19 years; and from various AKs?

If Russian could perfect a weapon 60 years back I think American should have as well. To many jams may not be problem since they are civilians not living in intense zones, but for those who actually use weapon on frequant basis for defense or those who are in service, are quite troubled with this problem.

Any marines here who might have some suggestions regarding M4 jams of this sort?
Firepower! is offline  
Old November 16, 2008, 11:24 AM   #15
Ridge_Runner_5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 8, 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,925
Jams happen, its a fact of life...when was the last time you cleaned it? The ARs arent like AKs, they need to be cleaned and lubed reguarly to function properly...

And you were firing full auto?
Ridge_Runner_5 is offline  
Old November 16, 2008, 11:41 AM   #16
Lavid2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2007
Posts: 2,568
The only real problem I see if feeding problems. Some instructors suggest you load a cartridge, take out the magazine, and feel that the cartridge has switched sides. If the cartridge on the left was up and now the one on the right is up...you know you have one in the chamber. An effective way of checking at night. However I feel tht if the bolt is closed it is very hard to get the magazine back into place. When the BCG is open there is no tension when the mag is put into place. However when the BCG is in the way you have to slap the magazine up hard enough so the cartridges get pushed down a hair and THEN the magazine clicks into place. I have run this drill to see if I have chambered a round many times, and after the first shot the chambe loads empty because the magazine isn't properly set. This remedial action is needed. Not a HUGE deal...but I think its a big one. So when you insert the magazine, PULL on it. Make sure its in place.

This is my biggest failure with the ar15/M16 platform
__________________
Math>Grammar
Lavid2002 is offline  
Old November 16, 2008, 01:47 PM   #17
ISC
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,982
I only load 29 rds in my mags. I hear alot of other soldiers say 28, but they're mostly old timers and the mags with green followers seem to be much less susceptable to magazine spring tension problems.
ISC is offline  
Old November 17, 2008, 01:59 AM   #18
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
The last I cleaned before jamm was two month ago when I fired it last. The guns was kept in clean enviornment.

I used full auto mode.

Had 28 rounds in the mag which jammed.
Firepower! is offline  
Old November 17, 2008, 02:20 AM   #19
B. Lahey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,853
I like to apply a small amount of lube before firing if my AR sits unused for a long time, even if it was properly lubed after I cleaned it last. CLP tends to "migrate".

This is particularly true if it was stored muzzle-up in a rack or leaned against the wall. You end up with a bunch of lube in the spring tube and very little on and around the bolt.
B. Lahey is offline  
Old December 9, 2008, 06:06 AM   #20
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
whats the time frame we are looking at before applying lube to unused M4?
Also in a sudden use or emergency that could be a problem. Perhaps keep it well lubed all the time?
How much difference does lubing makes since even after lubing m4 did pretty bad in the dust test?
Firepower! is offline  
Old December 9, 2008, 10:13 PM   #21
B. Lahey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,853
When only target shoot with my AR now, but when I kept it ready to protect the homefront I would break it down and make sure there was lube in the right places about once a week.

They actually run better in dust when slightly sloppy. Not dripping, but a little extra lube improves things according to some military tests done not long ago. If I had to rely on an AR in a dusty area I would break it down and clean/lube it every day, using slightly more lube than usual.
B. Lahey is offline  
Old February 7, 2009, 05:59 AM   #22
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
Well I will lube it up and leave it in its airtight case.
Firepower! is offline  
Old February 7, 2009, 07:57 AM   #23
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: May 2, 1999
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 3,611
The jam you describe sounds more like a magazine issue. Try marking the magazine (Magic Marker) so if you have another jam you can determine if it's that same magazine.

Poor magazines are the curse of the M16 platform.
__________________
http://www.scfirearms.org/
Al Thompson is offline  
Old February 7, 2009, 08:33 AM   #24
B. Lahey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,853
That is certainly so. If that mag gives you a problem, beat it into a frisbee with a hammer or use it for target practice.
__________________
"A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards."
-George Orwell
B. Lahey is offline  
Old February 7, 2009, 09:57 AM   #25
450NE
Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2008
Posts: 22
Hello there, Firepower. You don't seem very happy. Why don't you sell me your M4 and get yourself a few more AK's? I know that's not possible. It's a joke.

Seriously!

I guess I'm an old guy but I am a Viet Nam era Marine. You must certainly live in a threatening environment where you lose sleep over your rifle jamming every 1200 rounds. Perfection is in the realm of our Creator. Unfortunately, in a real world, we have to settle for something a bit less.

I would happily take any M16 variant out there into combat.

And I gotta say, "more lube"??? When in dusty conditions, you need more lube? Really ?? Who did this test?? I'd like to read about it.

I find that pretty hard to believe. In my experience, you use LESS lube in dusty conditions. Lube and especially extra lube causes the dust and sand and dirt to collect and even clump up. This is not conducive to trouble free operation.

Just my .02.

By the way, I'm looking for an M16 if anybody needs to move one.
__________________
If you like fine guns, I invite you to take a look at my personal collection. Click on my User Name and then go to my website. Hope you enjoy !

Last edited by 450NE; February 7, 2009 at 10:29 AM.
450NE is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2017 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11149 seconds with 8 queries