Need a little suppressor help.

Tommygun1 · June 21, 2008, 12:01 AM

I'm new to the forum, and suppressors. I have a few questions to throw out there. First a bit about me. I turn 21 in august. I intend to go on my birthday to purchase..start paperwork.. on a Sig P220 .45 and YHM Cobra can. Seems like a good package. I think I'll go the Willmaker trust rout. Here is the big bummer..
I currently live with my parents in Wisconsin. My father is a felon(nonviolent)...tax deal a few years back. My question is, can I keep my can, and pistol of course in a different location than where i live? I've been doing some reading on the forum about safety deposit boxes?
Can I keep the can at the bank legally?
Grandma's house?
When I do get a place, do I need to change the forms? ( still same jurisdiction
When I file for the tax stamp will they throw it out because of my home address?

I want to do this right, can anybody help?

David Hineline · June 21, 2008, 01:55 AM

You can lock it up in your own house so he does not have access. I don't know how much background check they can do on a trust since it will have nothing to do with your father.

I reccomend CLEO attempt first, that way when you get stopped with the item it is the person who stopped you's boss who signed the forms.

aroundlsu · June 21, 2008, 03:08 PM

You can store it in a safe in your room as long as he does not have the code.

No matter whether he has a felony or a perfectly clean record, you must keep the suppressor out of the control of anyone in your house who is not authorized under the trust to possess it.

Tommygun1 · June 22, 2008, 12:21 PM

Is it legal for me to keep it at say a friends in a safe I have the only access to?
Is there somewhere I can find out where you can and cant keep one?

VUPDblue · June 22, 2008, 12:45 PM

You aren't going to find a list of specific places that are or are not acceptable. The only guidelines are that it has to be kept in a jurisdiction where it is legal and in a place where only the registered owner has access to it. The specifics are up to you as to the type of container. I'd go ahead and throw it in a Safety Deposit Box at a bank. They're so cheap, I don't know why everyone doesn't have one. I have one and I keep some toys in it. Just make sure to get it out on Friday if you plan on shooting Saturday...

shaggy · June 22, 2008, 01:15 PM

I'll second what DavidHineline said - if you can get a CLEO signoff, use that method rather than a trust.

Once you have the NFA item in your home address (in a locked container your father does not have access to), you can move it to another location in your state without amending the F4 or notifying the NFA Branch. If you move it out of state you'll have to use a form 5320.20 and notify the NFA branch to amend your F4 if its a permanent move.

Tommygun1 · June 22, 2008, 09:52 PM

Thanks a ton! If I go the CLEO rout do I just get the forms for that at the dealer? I cant wait to kick this off

I dont ever intend to move out of state, and the can may never leave the county so I shouldnt have to transfer any paperwork. My biggest thing was where I can keep it. Does anyone have any experience with a Sig p220 with a Yankee Hill can? Hopefully its the first of many.

David Hineline · June 23, 2008, 12:56 AM

Form 5320.20 can be filled out for moves, but it is not required for Silencers and AOWs, other NFA items it is required.

aroundlsu · June 23, 2008, 11:51 AM

The closest you are going to get to seeing something written down is on the homepage of the ATF NFA website:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/nfab/index.htm

From the website:

To avoid unauthorized transfers, registrants must store NFA firearms so that no one else has access to them. Firearms may be stored at locations other than the address on the firearm registration form, such as a safe deposit box. However, unless the registrant is a Federal firearms licensee who has paid the special (occupational) tax to import, manufacture, or deal in NFA firearms, the NFA Branch should be notified in writing of the new storage location.

----
Notice it says "should be notified". In ATF-speak, that means what it says. Should. Not must.

Tommygun1 · June 23, 2008, 12:36 PM

Now, How would you go about geting the CLEO to sign off? Do I arrange some type of meeting? Send the paperwork in with a note? Would the DA be a good option? I know the guy, but I dont know if he would do it. I guess I could use the trust if all else fails.

Say I want to store only the can at the bank. Can you just walk in there and drop it in your box? It seems like a good option, but I dont want to violate any laws by bringing a "firearm" on the premises. I work at a prison... I dont want to live there.

aroundlsu · June 23, 2008, 01:16 PM

Depending on how large your city is you may be able to just walk into the Sheriff's office and get the sign off on the spot. Ask for the Sheriff's personal secretary and speak to her about it. It's likely you aren't the first person to ask for one (but you might).

I live in a huge city so my procedure is to drop the Form 4 off with his personal secretary. I attach a cover letter along with copies of my drivers license and CCW permit. About three weeks later they call me back and tell me to come pick it up.

Regarding the bank deal, you will need to check your own state and local laws if you are really that worried about it. But when you get a safety deposit box it's no one business but yours about what goes in it. You'll have private access to it.

VUPDblue · June 23, 2008, 01:19 PM

You won't be violating any laws by storing your item in a bank vault box. There are, however, some laws in certain jurisdiction restricting carrying a firearm in a bank

Tommygun1 · June 23, 2008, 01:45 PM

Thanks a lot guys! Now I wait...wait...wait until August so I can get the ball rolling:barf:

shaggy · June 23, 2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Form 5320.20 can be filled out for moves, but it is not required for Silencers and AOWs, other NFA items it is required.

Absolutely true, but for a permanent move to another state, I'd recommend doing a 5320.20 on the can to CYA, and enclose a cover letter with the 5320.20 asking NFA to make note of the change on the NFRTR. Once you had the 5320.20 approved and returned, you'd have something for your records to show NFA/BATFE had notice of the permanent change of location and approved the move.

Tommygun1 · June 23, 2008, 11:34 PM

I hope I dont need to get those forms. I like my location. I just need my own place.......and a safe full of NFA goodies! I have a couple things in mind, but I gotta get through the first one first.

freakshow10mm · June 24, 2008, 09:42 AM

Suppressors are not firearms. They do not go on a 4473.

There is no law I'm aware of in Wisconsin that disallows suppressors in a bank (I'm a WI native of the Fox Cities area). Again, suppressors are not firearms because they don't expel or fire or shoot anything. They are a firearm accessory.

Remember, bank employees cannot ask you what you are storing in the deposit box.

PTK · June 24, 2008, 09:45 AM

By the wording of the 1934 NFA, silencers absolutely ARE firearms.

VUPDblue · June 24, 2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

By the wording of the 1934 NFA, silencers absolutely ARE firearms.

What he said. And if you Form1 a suppressor, a Form1 is an application to make and register a 'firearm'.

The last suppressor I bought, I had to do a 4473... Hell, I did one for all of them for that matter...

PTK · June 24, 2008, 11:37 AM

AFAIK, the issue of doing a 4473 is up to the dealer. They aren't required. But, by Federal law (and most states follow this), silencers are considered firearms all by themselves, as silly as that is.

aroundlsu · June 24, 2008, 02:48 PM

Absolutely suppressors are considered firearms under both Federal Law and the wording of Louisiana State Law.

Edit: I didn't have to do a 4473 when picking my suppressor up at the SOT. Another note, I never showed my ID once during the whole deal. Scary, I know.

Tommygun1 · June 24, 2008, 10:34 PM

Well today I looked up the e-mail address for our county sheriff. I popped the question about him signing off on form 4's. I hope to get a reply in my favor. Wish me luck. I'll let you guys know.

MisterPX · June 25, 2008, 10:04 AM

You have to store teh can so that nobody else has access to it, whether or not you live with a felon.

As far as the can itself, as long as it has a boster/nielson/lid/etc, it should work fine.

Tommygun1 · June 25, 2008, 10:37 AM

I got a reply. He said he wants to see the Wisconsin statutes which allow ownership of the the can as well as the form 4's. I wouldnt think I could get him the form 4's until I'm 21 and can start the paperwork, but does anyone know where I can dig up these laws to print off and or e-mail to him?

aroundlsu · June 25, 2008, 11:51 AM

Dude, Step 1, you really need to locate a Class III SOT in your area. Post on silencertalk.com and ask for a dealer in your city. You'll find one there. The dealer will likely know how to interact with your local sheriff and will provide you with the Form 4. There may also be a state registration process that your dealer will know how to handle (or there may not be).

Step 2, you need to turn 21.

Don't get into a big pissing match with the Sheriff yet. You are pulling the trigger and panicking too early on the signoff. Buy the suppressor first from a dealer. If its not in stock sitting on his shelf you have MONTHS to wait until you have a Form 4 ready to sign.

aroundlsu · June 25, 2008, 11:54 AM

Also, if he won't sign its no big deal. Set up a trust using Quicken Willmaker, get it notarized, and give your sheriff the middle finger.

June 21, 2008, 12:01 AM	#1
Tommygun1 Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Posts: 27	Need a little suppressor help. I'm new to the forum, and suppressors. I have a few questions to throw out there. First a bit about me. I turn 21 in august. I intend to go on my birthday to purchase..start paperwork.. on a Sig P220 .45 and YHM Cobra can. Seems like a good package. I think I'll go the Willmaker trust rout. Here is the big bummer.. I currently live with my parents in Wisconsin. My father is a felon(nonviolent)...tax deal a few years back. My question is, can I keep my can, and pistol of course in a different location than where i live? I've been doing some reading on the forum about safety deposit boxes? Can I keep the can at the bank legally? Grandma's house? When I do get a place, do I need to change the forms? ( still same jurisdiction When I file for the tax stamp will they throw it out because of my home address? I want to do this right, can anybody help?

June 21, 2008, 01:55 AM	#2
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Lock it up You can lock it up in your own house so he does not have access. I don't know how much background check they can do on a trust since it will have nothing to do with your father. I reccomend CLEO attempt first, that way when you get stopped with the item it is the person who stopped you's boss who signed the forms.

June 22, 2008, 12:45 PM	#5
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	You aren't going to find a list of specific places that are or are not acceptable. The only guidelines are that it has to be kept in a jurisdiction where it is legal and in a place where only the registered owner has access to it. The specifics are up to you as to the type of container. I'd go ahead and throw it in a Safety Deposit Box at a bank. They're so cheap, I don't know why everyone doesn't have one. I have one and I keep some toys in it. Just make sure to get it out on Friday if you plan on shooting Saturday... __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

June 23, 2008, 12:56 AM	#8
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Form 5320.20 Form 5320.20 can be filled out for moves, but it is not required for Silencers and AOWs, other NFA items it is required.

June 23, 2008, 01:19 PM	#12
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	You won't be violating any laws by storing your item in a bank vault box. There are, however, some laws in certain jurisdiction restricting carrying a firearm in a bank __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

June 21, 2008, 03:08 PM	#3
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	You can store it in a safe in your room as long as he does not have the code. No matter whether he has a felony or a perfectly clean record, you must keep the suppressor out of the control of anyone in your house who is not authorized under the trust to possess it.

June 22, 2008, 12:21 PM	#4
Tommygun1 Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Posts: 27	Is it legal for me to keep it at say a friends in a safe I have the only access to? Is there somewhere I can find out where you can and cant keep one?

June 22, 2008, 01:15 PM	#6
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	I'll second what DavidHineline said - if you can get a CLEO signoff, use that method rather than a trust. Once you have the NFA item in your home address (in a locked container your father does not have access to), you can move it to another location in your state without amending the F4 or notifying the NFA Branch. If you move it out of state you'll have to use a form 5320.20 and notify the NFA branch to amend your F4 if its a permanent move.

June 22, 2008, 09:52 PM	#7
Tommygun1 Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Posts: 27	Thanks a ton! If I go the CLEO rout do I just get the forms for that at the dealer? I cant wait to kick this off I dont ever intend to move out of state, and the can may never leave the county so I shouldnt have to transfer any paperwork. My biggest thing was where I can keep it. Does anyone have any experience with a Sig p220 with a Yankee Hill can? Hopefully its the first of many.

June 23, 2008, 11:51 AM	#9
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	The closest you are going to get to seeing something written down is on the homepage of the ATF NFA website: http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/nfab/index.htm From the website: To avoid unauthorized transfers, registrants must store NFA firearms so that no one else has access to them. Firearms may be stored at locations other than the address on the firearm registration form, such as a safe deposit box. However, unless the registrant is a Federal firearms licensee who has paid the special (occupational) tax to import, manufacture, or deal in NFA firearms, the NFA Branch should be notified in writing of the new storage location. ---- Notice it says "should be notified". In ATF-speak, that means what it says. Should. Not must.

June 23, 2008, 12:36 PM	#10
Tommygun1 Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Posts: 27	Now, How would you go about geting the CLEO to sign off? Do I arrange some type of meeting? Send the paperwork in with a note? Would the DA be a good option? I know the guy, but I dont know if he would do it. I guess I could use the trust if all else fails. Say I want to store only the can at the bank. Can you just walk in there and drop it in your box? It seems like a good option, but I dont want to violate any laws by bringing a "firearm" on the premises. I work at a prison... I dont want to live there.

June 23, 2008, 01:16 PM	#11
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	Depending on how large your city is you may be able to just walk into the Sheriff's office and get the sign off on the spot. Ask for the Sheriff's personal secretary and speak to her about it. It's likely you aren't the first person to ask for one (but you might). I live in a huge city so my procedure is to drop the Form 4 off with his personal secretary. I attach a cover letter along with copies of my drivers license and CCW permit. About three weeks later they call me back and tell me to come pick it up. Regarding the bank deal, you will need to check your own state and local laws if you are really that worried about it. But when you get a safety deposit box it's no one business but yours about what goes in it. You'll have private access to it.

June 23, 2008, 01:45 PM	#13
Tommygun1 Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Posts: 27	Thanks a lot guys! Now I wait...wait...wait until August so I can get the ball rolling:barf:

June 23, 2008, 11:34 PM	#15
Tommygun1 Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Posts: 27	I hope I dont need to get those forms. I like my location. I just need my own place.......and a safe full of NFA goodies! I have a couple things in mind, but I gotta get through the first one first.

June 24, 2008, 09:42 AM	#16
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Suppressors are not firearms. They do not go on a 4473. There is no law I'm aware of in Wisconsin that disallows suppressors in a bank (I'm a WI native of the Fox Cities area). Again, suppressors are not firearms because they don't expel or fire or shoot anything. They are a firearm accessory. Remember, bank employees cannot ask you what you are storing in the deposit box.

June 24, 2008, 09:45 AM	#17
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	By the wording of the 1934 NFA, silencers absolutely ARE firearms.

June 24, 2008, 11:37 AM	#19
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	AFAIK, the issue of doing a 4473 is up to the dealer. They aren't required. But, by Federal law (and most states follow this), silencers are considered firearms all by themselves, as silly as that is.

June 24, 2008, 02:48 PM	#20
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	Absolutely suppressors are considered firearms under both Federal Law and the wording of Louisiana State Law. Edit: I didn't have to do a 4473 when picking my suppressor up at the SOT. Another note, I never showed my ID once during the whole deal. Scary, I know.

June 24, 2008, 10:34 PM	#21
Tommygun1 Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Posts: 27	Well today I looked up the e-mail address for our county sheriff. I popped the question about him signing off on form 4's. I hope to get a reply in my favor. Wish me luck. I'll let you guys know.

June 25, 2008, 10:04 AM	#22
MisterPX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2006 Location: Amerika's Doyleland Posts: 809	You have to store teh can so that nobody else has access to it, whether or not you live with a felon. As far as the can itself, as long as it has a boster/nielson/lid/etc, it should work fine.

June 25, 2008, 10:37 AM	#23
Tommygun1 Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Posts: 27	I got a reply. He said he wants to see the Wisconsin statutes which allow ownership of the the can as well as the form 4's. I wouldnt think I could get him the form 4's until I'm 21 and can start the paperwork, but does anyone know where I can dig up these laws to print off and or e-mail to him?

June 25, 2008, 11:51 AM	#24
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	Dude, Step 1, you really need to locate a Class III SOT in your area. Post on silencertalk.com and ask for a dealer in your city. You'll find one there. The dealer will likely know how to interact with your local sheriff and will provide you with the Form 4. There may also be a state registration process that your dealer will know how to handle (or there may not be). Step 2, you need to turn 21. Don't get into a big pissing match with the Sheriff yet. You are pulling the trigger and panicking too early on the signoff. Buy the suppressor first from a dealer. If its not in stock sitting on his shelf you have MONTHS to wait until you have a Form 4 ready to sign.

June 25, 2008, 11:54 AM	#25
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	Also, if he won't sign its no big deal. Set up a trust using Quicken Willmaker, get it notarized, and give your sheriff the middle finger.