Opinions On The Dragunov

[Wyldman]

I am seriously considering buying a Dragunov and I would like to hear the opinions from those of you who own or are familiar with the rifle by first-hand experience. List on the rifle at the shop I found it at is around $1000 (Brand New) but the owner is a friend of my brothers and offered me the rifle today for about $800. I have read all the reviews I can find about it and have yet to hear anything negative about it but I would still like to hear what some of you think of it.

Thanks in advance guys!

[B. Lahey]

If it's a rooski SVD, buy it immediately. They are worth way, WAY more than that in the US.

If it's a Romanian super-size AK action (I think they call them PSLs), that would be a marginal ripoff. Atlantic has them new for that price ($800).

[CGSteve8718]

Agree, if it's an actual SVD, buy it immediately, no questions asked. Unless of course, it doesn't fire anymore or is it deplorable condition. Even if it were an NDM 86 (Chinese SVD), buy that immediately as well.

I don't think you can get much help with experience, as not many people are fortunate enough to own a real SVD.

And a PSL is not in any way, shape, or form a Dragunov. Retailers call it that as a marketing gimmick. The actions are different. There is only a marginal physical resemblance with the furniture.

And $1K for that would be a phenomenal ripoff. The ban isn't here yet...

[B. Lahey]

Also on the buy-now-goldangit list is the Tigr, an interesting Russian SVD variant made for foreign non-military markets, I believe. I saw one at a gunshow in the 80's when I was a kid and my dad did not trust my judgment that it was super cool and would be worth money some day...

I have never seen another one and they are silly expensive now.

[Wyldman]

It IS Brand-new and I think it is the Romanian. I should mention that that price includes a 4x12 sniper scope (the brand escapes me but it is a $150 scope) and the guy ALWAYS throws in lots of "freebies" like extra mags, accessories, etc with his deals with us.

The Dragunovs are next to impossible to find around here where I live and actually, his is only the 2nd shop I have seen that carries them around here and I refuse to even walk into the other shop as the owner is INSANE on his prices and has an extremely bad attitude.

[WeedWacker]

Check to make sure it is an SVD over a Tigr since there is a Tigr model that has a skeleton SVD stock, however these are extremely rare and almost worth more than an SVD. Good buy either way. Tigr's go for about 700-800 and SVD's are anything over 1500 on a good day. Average over 2000. Last gun show saw one priced at 2500.

Edit: On the tigr, it has a thumbhole stock instead of the skeletonized one and has a plastic guard over the barrel and gas tube.

[B. Lahey]

It's not a Dragunov, it's an oversized AK, and those optics can be a little squirrely. They all come with the optics, by the way. Have you looked through the 'scope? Some are a little dim and hazy with goofball, useless reticles.

The Tigr I saw way back when had the skeletonized stock, all wood, with a wacky high-gloss finish on both the metal and wood. Damn fine looking rifle, I wish I could have bought it.

[Wyldman]

I am embarrased to say this but, I am really not sure WHO the manufacturer is. I was too enthrolled in the rest of his stock to ask or look for myself. The owner says that he personally owns one and told me that we would go shoot his at his on-site range before I bought the new one. I know SOME guns well and most, not so well but my brother who is very much in the know told me that it was a steal for $800. It may actually be the SVD.

This dealer is definitely not the type to rip people off ... he is a very nice, decent guy and he and my bro have been friends for years. My bro buys all of his guns there.


EDIT: This dealer is adored by everyone who knows him and is well known for being the most inexpensive and reliable dealer in this area. Local law enforcement and the Border Patrol agents here all buy their weapons from him.

[Wyldman]

I will go in the shop and re-examine the rifle and get back to you all on exactly what it is. If it IS the Romanian, what is considered a "decent price" for it?

[predator86]

well im waiting on a dragunuv to show up at my gunstore, we ordered it from centerfire systems, im going to be paying 850-875 when it comes in......and i bought 8 mags for it too......


its a good price, and im betting that its romanian, SVD's are really rare.....

[Wyldman]

Ok, no need to wait. I checked it out and it is the PSL. I researched it online and almost everyone I see who sells them are asking $899 and up for them so I am thinking that $800 + the extra mags and all the freebies this guy always throws-in for us makes it worth it. There is also the threat that if Obama-Mamma gets elected (which unfortunately, it looks like he probably will) the ban on these types of weapons is almost sure to follow shortly after so, I think I am going to jump on it while I still can.

Honestly, I am afraid of another Y2K type gun rush happening if he gets elected and fear we will likely see the prices of these types of weapons go from $800 to $2500 almost overnight. This same dealer is also selling the Romanian AK's for $399 and the Russian AK's for $699 so I may even pick-up one of those while I am at it.

Thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate it!

[wjkuleck]

dragunuv

Please, please don't refer to the Romanian PSL as a "Dragunov." It's not even close; it's an RPK-style receiver, basically an AK lengthened for the 7.62x54R Russian battle rifle cartridge.

The Dragunov is a completely different design.

The scope on the PSL is the Romanian version of the Soviet PSO. A number of different East Bloc and former East Block scopes have been offered for the side mount found on the PSL (and some Romanian AKs, as well).

If you do acquire a PSL, shoot only the 173-ish grain ball in it. The RPK receiver doesn't take well to a steady diet of the 190+ grain "heavy ball." Do a Google search on "PSL" or "FPK" for more info.

Regards,

Walt

[CGSteve8718]

Originally Posted by wjkuleck

Please, please don't refer to the Romanian PSL as a "Dragunov." It's not even close; it's an RPK-style receiver, basically an AK lengthened for the 7.62x54R Russian battle rifle cartridge.

The Dragunov is a completely different design.

The scope on the PSL is the Romanian version of the Soviet PSO. A number of different East Bloc and former East Block scopes have been offered for the side mount found on the PSL (and some Romanian AKs, as well).

If you do acquire a PSL, shoot only the 173-ish grain ball in it. The RPK receiver doesn't take well to a steady diet of the 190+ grain "heavy ball." Do a Google search on "PSL" or "FPK" for more info.

Yes, there seems to be a whole lot of confusion in this thread. Once again, I was pretty confident from the get go, that we weren't talking about an SVD. Like I said, and wjkuleck said again, the PSL is not in any way, shape, or form, a Dragunov. Retailers used it as a marketing gimmick (and oh how it has worked).

The only SVD rifles that came into the US were either Russian or Chinese. There would be no Romanian SVDs available here (IIRC Romania didn't even make an SVD). The Tigr is pretty much just a post ban SVD, with neutered features. The SVD was only imported by KBI, and a very small amount came in. The Tigr is hard to find, but it will never be harder to find than a SVD and will never cost as much. Die hard collectors purchase Tigrs when they can get them, and pay out the nose for SVD parts to convert it back to normal.

The prices listed are way off. $1200 isn't even close to what a SVD goes for. Try $6000. A few grand is not uncommon for SVD parts only. Again, it's not a super accurate rifle or made out of magic, you can thank the import bans for these prices.

So, again no one is ordering any Dragunovs from anywhere, because they can't be ordered from anywhere. You will only get one from someone else, because the few that came in are it. No retailer will have "new" Dragunovs for sale.

Back to the PSL, it is Romanian and only Romanian. Only Romanians made the PSL. Over time in our civilian market, they have had many designations such as Romak III, PSL, FPK, and SSG 97. The official military designation is PSL.

In combloc military doctrine, it isn't really a sniper rifle. It's more of a designated marskmen's rifle.

Some are parts guns, and some were built entirely in Romania. These will also have neutered features (just the bayo lug ground off). I suggest getting the one marked PSL, as that is the one that should say "made in Romania". Check it over well first, Romanians aren't known for quality care for any of their rifles.

If this sounds like a rant, sorry. I'm no expert, but I am an avid enthusiast and collector of the AK platform, and of combloc/Cold War weapons. I state these prices from what I personally see and paid for things related to this.

Also Wyldeman, skip on the "Russian" AK for $699. It's not really Russian. There are no Russian AK/AKMs commercially available here. It's just another marketing gimmick. And please, don't come out and tell me about the Saiga...I know it's the next "closest" thing.

[Wyldman]

wjkuleck, I already knew about the issues with the "heavy ball" ammo. That ammo was never designed for use with the "AK's" in the first place. Thanks for the heads-up though.

CGSteve8718, yes ... it is the Saiga and IMHO it is a VERY nice weapon! I know that many of you are die-hard AR15 fans who dislike AK's and although the AR is an awesome weapon and very accurate, the Romanian AK's (yes, they are still AK's, designed on Kalishnokovs original design) and the Saiga's are much more dependable under extreme combat situations, are very accurate and the 7.62 ammo for them is 1/2 the price of 5.56 right now which coincidentally, is also pretty hard to find in bulk anywhere except online due to the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. IMO, that is a HUGE selling point for the rifle! Of course there is the fact that Russian, Chinese, etc. 7.62 does more damage than the 5.56 and has better penetration.

[Willie D]

Zastava arms of Serbia/Yugoslavia also makes a "PSL" type rifle (dragunov look-a-like with AK action). It's probably better built than the romanians. Iraq makes an SVD copy but presumably none have come here legally.

The easiest way to tell SVD/NDM from a PSL is the SVD has a side takedown lever like an SKS and the PSL types have a center takedown button like an AK.

[chris in va]

What you're looking at is the PSL. I shot one a little while back, it jammed pretty bad on standard 54r surplus.

Interesting gun though, just don't see a use for it. The scope is weird to say the least and hard to use.

I should mention that that price includes a 4x12 sniper scope (the brand escapes me but it is a $150 scope) and the guy ALWAYS throws in lots of "freebies" like extra mags, accessories, etc with his deals with us.

The PSL comes as a kit WITH the scope and the 'extras' you're refering to. He's not being nice, it comes like that.

7.62 ammo for them is 1/2 the price of 5.56

If you're refering to 7.62x39, that's not true. Pretty close in price right now. 7.62x51...yes, at least double.

Romanian PSL. (No idea where the trigger is...)



Dragunov SVD.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

okay we get the picture that they are different. Not everybody seems to be as knowledgeable as you...

[Wyldman]

okay we get the picture that they are different. Not everybody seems to be as knowledgeable as you...

LMAO! I liked that! I should have just accepted the fact that I am a moron for wanting this rifle, lol.

I should have known better than to ask that question about the Dragunov COPY in here in the first place! :barf:

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

lol.

I'm not here to trash on anyone, but I hate it when someone comes in asking about something or other, especially with clones.

They usually call them the same thing, like M4 or AR15. Two completely different guns, yes, but its besides the point. They're asking about it.

I don't like it when people expect someone to know the difference between two different things, or even when they assume so.

just my two pennies.

btw, I am going to be looking into buying one of those, the Romanian PSL that clearly looks similar to an SVD

[CGSteve8718]

I think you guys are being very childish. No one while informing the OP about his rifle was trying to be condescending or elitist, or an expert. If anything, quite the opposite is true. We were trying to help (I was).

Why would you be upset about learning correct information? It's not the same rifle, and it isn't a Dragunov clone, the internals are different.

Would you be satisfied with people calling Hi-Powers, 1911s? Would you tell people that all 7.62 rifles are the same?

Just for the off chance that someone is asking about an SVD compared with a PSL, nothing interchanges on them. Not mags, or furniture.

No one expects someone to know something right off the bat. What is the purpose of a forum? How would anyone ever learn anything if we all acted like you? The M4 and AR15 are closer to each other than a PSL and an SVD. That's why people call them M4geries.

Wyldeman, no one called you a moron...

I was happy for you if it was you had the super lucky opportunity to get an actual SVD from a pawnshop or from someone who didn't care for it any longer and wanted to let it go for cheap, or who didn't know or care what it was. I believe I was also helping you out about the deal that you thought you were getting, as well as others in reference to the "extras" that your dealer or whomever was "hooking" you up with. $700-$800 is the usual going rate for a PSL, the shop's original price of $1000 is nonsense, and he isn't doing you a favor by selling it for $800.

Centerfire Systems has just the rifle (which comes with scope) for $719.

I was being a bit detailed because there are sellers/dealers out there who try to rip people off. For those who are very new, they might be super excited when a seller tells them they are selling them a Russian Dragunov SVD. The same goes for when people market as "Russian", or that it has "Russian red" furniture. I just don't want to see someone get burned, or believe they have something they don't.

One last thing if you care, check the rifle out for cant or other assembly issues. Romanian rifles are notorious for lack of QC.

[B. Lahey]

I understand now. You didn't want information on SVDs, you just wanted a bunch of gun nerds to say:

"yeah drayygunuv dooode! you rule you got the greatest riffle evar man you so damn cool!"

Sorry to disappoint you by answering your questions.

I should have known better than to ask that question about the Dragunov COPY in here in the first place!

And it's not a copy of a dragunov, either. You obviously didn't even read half the posts.

[Darren007]

I am thinking that $800 + the extra mags and all the freebies this guy always throws-in for us makes it worth it.

I should mention that that price includes a 4x12 sniper scope (the brand escapes me but it is a $150 scope) and the guy ALWAYS throws in lots of "freebies" like extra mags, accessories, etc with his deals with us.

as well as others in reference to the "extras" that your dealer or whomever was "hooking" you up with. $700-$800 is the usual going rate for a PSL, the shop's original price of $1000 is nonsense, and he isn't doing you a favor by selling it for $800.

I was going to comment/warn you about this earlier. An $800 rifle being sold for $1000 + extra mags and "freebies"??? Guess what? Those aren't freebies...your paying an extra $200 for the mags and "freebies".


I too know an old guy working at the local dealer here. Nicest guy you'll ever meet. Will tell you anything and everything you ever wanted to know about most guns. And will order/find any gun you care to want. But, if youre not careful, he'll swindle a few extra dollars out of ya without a batting an eye.

[GATMOG]

If you still want a Cugir built, Century imported PSL like the one you saw at the store--centerfire systems has them at a much better price with more accessories included

[CajunBass]

I saw a fellow shooting one of those or something that looked like one of them anyway, the other day. I don't know if it was a real one, a copy, or what, but that thing threw empty brass like Bret Farve threw footballs.
(Looked more like the first picture Chris posted now that I think of it.)

It went BOOM! everytime he pulled the trigger, and made a nice pile of brass right at my feet about four tables away.

[predator86]

you mean it threw record amounts of interceptions????




im only kidding